Zara Uzenzele — Business Growth Funding Advice

- David Watts on mix 93.8. - Mix 93.8, legendary radio. As we do each and every Monday night at this time, welcome to it. It is what's involved, the show where we talk business, entrepreneurial things and things motivational. Tonight, I think it's a little bit of both. My special guest in studio is Zara Rogy. Hello, Zara. - Hi, hi, how are you? - Good, nice to have you with us. Okay, let's start off right at the beginning and then we'll get into and we'll explain exactly why you're here and what we're gonna be talking about. You are from a company called Uzensele. - That is correct. - So first and foremost, what does Uzensele mean? - Uzensele is a Zulu word that means to do for yourself. We've extended that to say not by yourself, but certainly want businesses to take initiative and take ownership. - Okay, so what does Uzensele do? - We are a boutique consultancy firm. We assist businesses to access developmental funding, predominantly, grant funds and then debt from the likes of the IDC, the NEF, the DTI and commercial banks as well. - Wow, okay, so is it sort of fair enough to say you demystify the funding sort of swamps that people have to go through? - I think that's a fair comment.

I think that's a very fair comment. - Okay, so let's sort of, tell me a little bit about Zara. I mean, you now own Uzensele. Your sister's in the business with you as well. But how did Zara get into a business like this? 'Cause it doesn't sound like something you just wake up one day and go, okay, that sounds like a great idea. - Certainly isn't that at all. My sister and I come from family business and I think that's a big part of how we ended up in Uzensele. We worked for the family business. My father owned a food distribution company, one of the largest in the country. And after university, we both went into the family business. And in about 2010, he said to us, we're a black business, we're a South African business, a black owned business. And government says there's money available for black owned businesses. So go get on your bicycles and go find out for me what is available for us. And it was then that we started to investigate what the funding landscape in South Africa was. Subsequently, in 2012, the family business closed down at the end of 2012. And Nadia, my sister and I looked at each other and said, well, what do we want to do now? And after two years, over two years of engaging with these institutions, understanding the funding landscape and understanding what didn't work for one of the largest businesses in the industry as my father's was, we said there's no way other businesses aren't struggling with this as well.

And why don't we take what we've learned? Why don't we take that together with our education? She's got a background in economics and finance. I've got a background in business and law. Why don't we bring these together along with our knowledge and start our own consulting company? - And how was it received? Because I mean, I've had a look at the website. I've chatted to people who work with you. And by all accounts, thriving business doing very well. But I'm sure, you know, when people talk funding ever, automatically it's government never happened to us and you gotta be crooked. So it couldn't have been an easy path. - Certainly not, certainly not an easy path. And I think that's what our role is, is to help businesses understand what is available, how to navigate that space and take them through that process. So yes, early days as a startup, certainly we're very tough identifying target markets. We went through all those things startups go through. But, you know, we got down to business. We really spent time understanding what it is that businesses needed and ultimately managed to define what it is that we can offer them, which is understanding that landscape, helping businesses understand that yes, you hear all sorts of things in the news, but that's not the reality on the ground.

And that if you do things properly and if you put your applications together the way they should be put together and if you communicate properly with the institutions, these funds are actually very accessible to businesses. And businesses have been taking advantage of them and have been benefiting from them for many, many years. - On a basic level, how would it work then? And we're gonna get into sort of the types of funding, the types of businesses, et cetera, et cetera, in just a little while. But on a basic level, I mean, how do you guys sort of make your money? If I was to approach and say, I have a business that does X, Y and Z, you say, okay, that's something that, you know, we know that there's funding available for, do you then charge me a fee? How does it work? How do we sort of get this relationship going? - That is how it works. So what happens is we first start off with an investigative meeting with any prospective clients, understanding what their needs are and determining whether or not there is a fund that they can approach. If we determine that, yes, there is somewhere they could access funding from, we then go down the road of engaging. And of course, what we're doing is we're providing advice and we're providing a service.

So there are agreements in place and we work on a dual risk basis. We risk a lot and the client risks a little bit upfront. So we sign a commitment fee with the clients upfront. The client pays us all our fees. We don't work for government. There are consultants out there that claim they do, which 99% of the time is not true. And this is where this industry often gets a bad name. - This is one of the very, very important points I wanted to bring up is, because you hear so much about this and the picture that gets painted is, yes, come along, we work for government, we'll do this. It'll be a walk in the park and you'll have your funding and we'll get you your millions and millions of South African runs. And more often than not, I've heard it ends in tears. - And that is the case, more often than not, when those individuals out there are trying to take advantage of this market and the fact that people don't understand it a lot. Very seldom are you going to engage with someone from the DTI outside of the DTI or the IDC outside of the IDC. If they say they're from that institution, you should be able to meet with them in their offices. Difficulties, they don't generally have a lot of time for that.

So that's where we come in and we act as the go-between. We understand what's necessary and we keep our clients, we hold their hands through the whole process and we don't keep them out of any communications. We make sure that when we're communicating with the institution, they're alongside with us. But what we do is, like I was saying, is we first determine what's available, we then sign a commitment fee, we go to market to raise this funding, we prepare their business plans, their financial models, their applications, and then all the facilitation, all the communication back and forth with these institutions right through to a successful application. And then we only really make our money if an application is successful. So our success is very much tied to our client success. - But I mean, just that concept, that you're putting in that risk as well. It means, number one, for somebody like me, if I was to come to you, it means peace of mind, it means you are legitimate. The fact that you walk the path with me is going to be awesome because as you were talking now, I'm thinking and I know a lot of entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs don't necessarily think the way they need to think in terms of this funding thing.

If I think about myself in my business, I'm very much sort of big picture kind of thing and also very much a don't bore me with the details. And that's great for getting up the ideas and getting things going. But if it were to come to something like funding, I would be lost and many entrepreneurs are like that. So to have a company such as yourself, to be able to walk you through that process step by step, I think that would be absolutely phenomenal. So we're gonna carry on and we're gonna talk a little bit about sort of who would apply for funding. How do you get funding? What kind of businesses? Are they sizes, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera? We're gonna talk all about that, but we're gonna do that in just a little bit when we come back. - David Wallace on Mix 93.8. But it's Mix 93.8, what's involved on a Monday nights. And tonight we're talking funding with Zorro Roji from Uzen Zele. And I gotta tell you, I've been very excited about this. First, there was a little bit of a trepidation. I was like, oh, I'm funding people. I don't know if I really were. And I gotta be honest, I get fairly picky about who and what I have on the show. But our mutual friends from the finance team said to me, listen, you gotta speak to Zorro and them because what they're doing is absolutely fantastic.

I went and did a bit of homework and it is. I mean, it's absolutely amazing what you're doing. And I think the fact that you guys do it as ethically as you do is a big part of your success. Would you agree with that? - I would agree with that. I would agree with that. I think a big part of this industry and why it's got a bad name is because a lot of people take advantage of business owners and really take them for a ride. I've heard horror stories. I really have heard horror stories in the industry. And we are very much about making sure that people know who we are. And that's why we're happy to share what we know on TV and on radio and we speak at events because we're not hiding behind anything. People are welcome to engage with us and know who we are. And we want to share our knowledge. - Which is absolutely fantastic. So speaking of sharing, you're now going to need to help me address my particular elephant in the room because we always hear about BEE and about funding and et cetera, et cetera, and it's black empowerment. But the term black empowerment is a broader term, isn't it? Because it covers a bunch of different cultures and people, doesn't it? - It certainly does. It covers your previously disadvantaged segments of the country, of the population.

So when black economic empowerment is referred to, black is the overarching term that's used to describe African, Indian, colored, and Chinese. All those groups that were previously disadvantaged under the apartheid regime. So it's not just African or black as people would, a lot of the time, think it is. - So that's answered the one thing. The second thing is when we talk BEE and I would imagine that there's a fair amount of sort of medium, mid-sized businesses that are still largely white owned and run,

the future for them in terms of doing business in the country and dealing with corporates, it's a bit scary at the moment, isn't it? - It's very scary at the moment and I don't blame them for being scared. Legislation and the new BEE codes have made it a requirement for corporates to start procuring from transformed companies. And more and more we're seeing that corporates are actually taking that on board. And in the early days it was, you know, corporates weren't too phased. But now they're really taking it seriously. We were just last week at the ABSA Supply Development Awards where huge, huge names, Massmart, SAPI, Pick and Pay, all these companies were there showing what they're doing to transform their supply chains. - I think transformation is the key word here and the critical word because so often, and this leads to what my initial hesitation was as well, is because when you think BEE, because of what's been in the public forums before, what people know about and have heard about, been reported on the news, is that means you're going to have to go out and you're going to have to get yourself a black partner purely as window dressing. And, you know, it's the old concept of the gravy train.

But that's changing as well. - That's very much changing as well. In fact, never was that the intention of black economic empowerment, of BEE. The intention was always to bring in that portion of the population, that segment of the population that was previously kept away from growing in economic terms. The idea was always to bring in people that could benefit the business. Yes, I mean, in some cases, maybe not as much as you'd like, but now more than ever, there are fantastic business people and professionals that can be brought into businesses. And when we look at this, we say very clearly, if you need to bring a partner on board, find a partner that is going to add value to your business. If you're a manufacturing concern, they don't need to know how to run the machines and have run a factory in the past. But bring on, do you need some, do you need a financial director in your business? Do you need someone to manage marketing? Do you need a CEO? Bring that person on board. Go ahead and someone that has quality to bring to the business. - Do you sort of offer advice around that? - We certainly always, so what we do is we partner with a lot of businesses. We are specialists in what we do.

And what we do is we bring specialists on board in different aspects. So we do have businesses we can bring along to help identify what is the right type of person to bring into your business, where your lack is. - Hmm, okay. So we're talking BE&E and empowerment, and I'm a big fan, and I'll tell you why I'm a big fan. Because I believe that if we have a growing middle and upper class, and the distinction between the sort of upper class and the lower, or the upper income level and the lower income level shrinks, we're gonna have a much more stable country. - Without a doubt. - And I'm a big fan of a stable country. And I think most entrepreneurs are. I don't, I want our investment rankings to go, I want that whole thing. And if we can help people in the process, why the heck not? So, you know, hopefully we've got a new deal with us a lot more than I do every day. Hopefully for the most part, we've gotten past that fear, we've gotten past the gravy train, and that sort of almost like a grudge thing. Okay, well now I've got to get a black pot on board, and they're just gonna sit there and do nothing. And I've spent the last 40 years building the family. Hopefully most of that is done now.

- It's certainly not done, but it's about changing that mindset and educating, and that's what we're hoping to do as well. - Fantastic stuff. So let's get on to this, all right? Now, they are sort of, when you say there's funding, and you're able to access various funding, what sort of businesses, what level of business would you guys come in at? - So as Usainzale, we predominantly assist established businesses that are looking for their next growth phase. So typically speaking, a business that has established themselves, has good track record, and now needs a capital injection to take the business to the next level. Typically, 99% of the time, the businesses were able to assist our manufacturing businesses, and that's simply because we're dealing with specific funds in government. And government's mandate is that, is to improve the industry in this country. And manufacturing takes a lot of government's mandate points, job creation, skills transfer, opening up export markets. So there's a lot in manufacturing that has vast impact and vast reach. - Okay, so to be very, very clear, okay? This is not for business startups. This is not a venture capital, or anything like this. This is not where you're at.

And it's not at somebody's, at the ideation stage. It's not really somebody who goes, "Fantastic idea. "Could I please have $11.7 million, "billion, $2,000,000,000, and three grand?" - Certainly not, certainly not. There are avenues for those businesses. Predominantly incubation, and in South Africa, there are a lot of great incubation programs that can assist businesses, develop the idea, and really establish their startups. Where we play is in the next stage, in that growth phase, in that expansion phase of businesses. - Okay, and you say predominantly in the sort of production side of things, what other niches or business opportunities do you do? Is IT fairly big at the moment? - IT is fairly big at the moment. The funding that's available is a little bit trickier in many respects, but yes, IT is a growing space. And we're happy to engage and see where we can guide businesses in that regard. - Okay, so if I've got the business, I've been running it, I've started it, and I'm now sort of where I currently am, I'm lacking maybe the BE level that I need to be at, and I'm lacking that capital, that funding to get me to the next level. This is where I talk to you. - Certainly, we can look at it.

And we always, look, we're happy to engage with clients and businesses looking for information. And if we can't help them, one thing that we really are against is closing the door and saying we can't help you. So if you're not a client that we can help, we do our best to guide you and put you in touch with someone that can help. - Okay, we got a question that's just in, but I don't think it's not quite where we are tonight. If I want to start a business and I'm looking for a CEO or financial manager for argument's sake, how will we pay them a salary if our capital is low? From my point of view, and being a business owner myself, capital is always a problem. But I mean, you're going to the business, number one, if you're starting a business, I don't know if you would need a CEO immediately, 'cause if you did, you might have the capital already. So, Ja, how would you, I'm gonna pass the back here, 'cause my answer might not be as diplomatic as it should be. - I was happy for you to keep going there, David. (laughing) No, as a startup, look, when you start up, you are a CEO, CFO, CMO, you're the person that makes tea and cleans the office at the end of the day. That's the reality as a startup.

At the next level, that's where you start to look at bringing on those professions. But I think trying to get a CEO and a CFO in as a startup, you're gonna shoot yourself in the foot because it's gonna require a lot of capital that is gonna be very difficult to get. - There is a different way and a different process that you can go through for that. And maybe what I can do is I can get in somebody that'll talk about that. - I think that would be better. - And that'll be a great one. Somebody says, please provide contact details of your guest. And then somebody else says, mention the company name of the lady on air. So, the company is called Usenzele. And at the end of the interview, I will give you all of Zara's contact details, the website address, the whole bunch. So, you can get it over there. So, now, I have now got my little manufacturing business that I've now been growing. And I've gotten to that stage where it is now next level. Maybe I've got one or two big contracts. What is my next step then? Do I then approach and Usenzele and say, ladies, this is where I am, help. Do you then take me through, as you mentioned earlier, you take me through those steps. Do you decide if I am the right size business to work with?

- Absolutely. So, what we look at is identifying and understanding what it is that you need funding for. And from there, determine which avenues of funding are available to you. Is there grant funding available? Which is obviously always a first prize because, provided you do what you said you were gonna do with that money, you never have to pay it back. - I like that sound. - Everyone likes that sound. Or is it debt funding? And that's certainly money you're going to pay back. But what are you looking for funding for? Typically speaking, there are specific funds around, there's a black industrial scheme. That requires a majority black ownership in a business to qualify. There's an agro-processing scheme, which doesn't require any black ownership to apply. So, we have to understand what does a business do. And from there, and how much do they need? From there, we identify what the right avenue is for them to access funding. - And as you said, you would then walk that path. - We'd walk that path with them. We help businesses do their entire business plans, their applications, their financial models, all of it. - Okay, this is getting more and more interested. I'm definitely looking at this and making plans for when my business grows.

But I can't really call myself an internet business or a sort of manufacturing business at this stage. But I'm sure I can, we can figure out something. IT, the IT space is growing massively. We are chatting to none other than Zara Roji from Uzen Zele. We'll give you details at the end of the show, as I said. My special guest in studio tonight on what's involved is Zara Roji from Uzen Zele. And we're talking funding and how to get funding from not only government, but there's several other avenues as well. Some business as well, does funding. Is there, are there sort of foundations, et cetera, et cetera, that do it that you work with now? - Yes, there are alternative funding institutions. So outside of government and outside of your big banks, your commercial banks, there's a range of funders in the middle that are there specifically to help fund businesses. - Okay, so I've now found uzenzele.com and I've looked at it and looked and I've decided, okay, sounds like you guys can help me out here. What does one need to actually do to get this funding? Because I mean, to me it seems like an absolute minefield. Obviously you guys know how to walk your way through it. But I've got to do certain things myself.

So take me through step by step what needs to be done. - I think the most important thing is to be ready to access finance. So before we can even help a business, we take a look at what they have already in place. And those are some simple things. Compliance, for example, is extremely important. Making sure all of your company documents are in order. Making sure you've got annual financial statements. BEE certificates. It doesn't matter what that certificate says. I mean, certainly depending on where you're going to access funds from, your level will be relevant. But have a certificate. Show that you're at least compliant or trying to be compliant. Have your tax clearance certificate. I mean, majority of the funding we raise is government funding. That funding comes from treasury. And treasury gets that money from taxpayers. So if you're not a good taxpayer, don't expect to access any of it. Fair enough. And then have a very important aspect is to have the right team in place. Because if you're gonna ask someone to put their money into your business, they're going to want to see that you know what you're doing. And lastly, have a market secured. That means having offtake agreements or contracts or purchase orders or letters of intent at the very least from your prospective clients.

We get a lot of businesses that say, you know, the market for cell phones is 10 billion rand. Okay, great. What's your share of that market? The fact that it's there doesn't mean you're going to get any of it. And funders want security to make sure that the funding they give you is going to actually result in, is going to go towards a sustainable business. - So in other words, if I manufacture widgets, I need to have a contract with a mine or whatever kind of big corporate or at least a letter of intent saying that if you can, blah, blah, blah, we would like to order 10 million per month. - Exactly. - Is that what we're talking about? - Exactly, that's what we're talking about. - Surely this kind of thing, and I mean, we've said the landscape is changing in South Africa in terms of business and how business gets done. I think that the small entrepreneur will always, always be around and the guys who are starting up businesses. And those are people that we need. - Absolutely. - But small businesses, and the only way forward for us in my opinion, is if small businesses grow into larger businesses, into medium-sized businesses. Is it worthwhile? And now let's talk about my little business that I run at the moment.

There's three, four of us that are involved in the business at the moment. It's growing, it's in the digital niche, it sounds very sexy. Should I be worried about this kind of thing now to start preparing for my growth going forward? - Any business that is looking to grow in the future needs to make sure that they're compliant and they've got that in order. It doesn't take much to put in an accounting software and make sure that your books are in order, pay your taxes and have the right, I mean, generally speaking, you've got the right team. So to have that in order shouldn't be difficult. It's just scary how many businesses couldn't be bothered to do it. - I often wonder if it's, and we've spoken to other people about that as well. And it's, again, it's this entrepreneurial thing is you get involved, it's a family business, it's mom and dad and uncle Ted and your brother and your, and everybody kind of does their own thing and you sort of chasing turnover, chasing turnover. And you get to the stage and then Auntie Flo is doing your books because she was a bookkeeper. And you don't, you don't plan for that kind of thing. And then you get to the day when you suddenly hit a wall and you need to get bigger.

And now we would approach somebody like you and you would sort of go, compliance first. So it is worthwhile for somebody even a smaller business as I am to go, listen, if I'm hoping to grow in whatever way, shape or form, 'cause I'm assuming it's not just government and corporates that fund, maybe there's private investors that you would like to get involved. And if they look at your books, et cetera, et cetera, and it's like a dog's breakfast, then you're in trouble. - Absolutely, and what you see a lot in family businesses is of course, there's a very blurred line between business and personal. The business account gets used for personal things. And that's not the end of the world as long as you're accounting for everything and you have all your ducks in a row. So the day that you want to actually resolve, go and access funding or bring on a partner or get a venture capitalist or a private equity partner, whatever it happens to be, that you're able to actually not fix because there shouldn't be a problem in it. You should be accounting for everything. But to actually remove all those elements from the business, you should be able to do that without it being a real headache for you.

- Okay, so if I come to you, 'cause I mean, your website's pretty and you look fairly approachable on the website and I come to you and I go, Zora, it's a mess. Would you have a look and say, okay, it's got potential, but you need, would you walk me through the steps of my non-compliance and help me to become more compliant? - Yes, what we'll do is we'll guide you in terms of what it is you need to do to become compliant and then invite you to obviously come back to us when you've got that resolved. But we're not that business that's going to take you on board when you don't have everything in order because you're gonna tell us we didn't help you, but we couldn't. So we want to rather tell you what you need to go and fix. Go fix those things, come back and we'll look at it again. But yes, there is potential or whatever the case might be. - And again, we spoke about this, we touched on it a little earlier on. It's not your business of necessarily matching a BEE partner or an empowerment partner with my business. But you do have contacts where you could maybe point me in the right direction or you could, I know I might be putting you on the spot here a little bit, but I'm just asking 'cause that's the other thing that to me would be a scary thing is, and even any sort of a partner, you know, when you enter into it, I think it's probably, I don't know, okay, sorry, I was just thinking about equating it to marriage.

I'm going, "Oh, I don't know, which is worse?" - Which is worse? I think you might be able to get out of a marriage a bit more easily these days. - Yeah, but it is, it's a massive commitment. I mean, this is your baby. This is something that you've built from the ground up or taken over from the family. And now you need to get other people involved. And in terms of legislation, we are going to need to get those people involved. - Certainly, there's various aspects to that. Certainly try and find someone who you're comfortable with or who's been in the business for a while, you've got experience with, if you can bring someone like that on board, great. No one ever said, "Give away your business." So just because you found the right person doesn't mean you need to now give the shares away. There are various ways to sell those shares. There's also ways to look at it a bit more interestingly with the likes of grant funding, for example, for a manufacturing business. Let's assume there's a white-owned manufacturing business. And yes, as this business, you're not at risk because the legislation requires that you transform. Corporates must procure from businesses that have a black ownership element to them.

And you're a bit scared of this. However, if you were able to bring on that black shareholder, your business would likely increase. You'd get more orders, you'd get more clients. And to do that, you'd probably need to improve your manufacturing capacities, increase your factory by new production lines, whatever the case might be. Grant funding is available for that. That grant funding is unlocked by a black partner and black owner. So it's about looking at it slightly differently, not just going, you know, bring on a black partner for the sake of it. Look at it strategically. There are various ways, and that's just one. There are various ways. One thing that is extremely important is to always remember, don't bring on a black partner and try and pretend that they are real. If you bring on a partner, bring on a real black partner. They must have real shares, real ownership rights, real voting rights, real management rights in that business. - This was the next thing, because there's this whole fronting thing where, you know, you should have take some poor person who may be working as a sweeper on the factory floor. And then on the paperwork, suddenly this person has shares and is this, that, and the next thing.

Meantime, they have no idea about it. And people, that's fraud. - That's fraud. And now a BEE Commission has been set up for those sorts of things. So, you know, someone can call into the BEE Commission and say, I believe that company X over there has got fronting going on, and the BEE Commission will investigate. And the fine there is up to 10 years in prison and up to 10 year, 10% of revenue as a fine. It's pretty big. - But I know, and as a business owner, you're a business owner as well. You know, the thought of getting a partner in, and I've run businesses before where I've done it, essentially, by myself. My current business, I have a partner in the business who put up the capital up front, promised to be a silent partner. He's not doing terribly well at that so far. But, you know, for me, it's massive. It's a huge, huge thing. Because, you know, he has somebody else that has shares in my baby and is gonna sit in a meeting with me and tell me what they think is right or wrong because of the fact of those shares. That's a scary thing. But now, if you're a business like mine or getting to that stage, why not? Because my belief is we need the, oh, okay, you can say what you like.

There's stuff in this country and we need to redress those issues. - Absolutely. - End of story. And I'm not suggesting for one single second that we give anybody a free ride. In fact, I'm totally opposed to that. And I think people, the guys at least, the guys I've met, the people of color that I've met have gone, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do it because I'm black. Do it because I can fit in the position. - 100%. - A mate of mine has actually said it's the biggest, biggest sign of disrespect for him ever if somebody wants him because he's black, not because he's capable. - Absolutely. And Nadia and I get approached regularly to take up shareholding in businesses because of the fact that we're Indians, so we qualify as black under the codes. And that's not what we're interested in. If I'm going to take shareholding, it's going to be in a business that I can add value. I'm sure I can add value in many businesses, but that I want to be involved in, not just for the sake of just having shares, for what? - Now, for somebody like me, somebody that's, oh, excuse me, a little, sort of maybe a little bigger than I am, is it not worthwhile having a look at people that are coming out of the various colleges, out of the various universities, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and putting them on a path.

So they start off with you in one position in the business, but with the aim that they're going to learn, they're going to add value from day one, but they're going to learn and they're going to grow into the business. And then you've got a chance, you've worked with those people for a long time. You know, they realize they're working towards something, so they're likely to be more invested, more dedicated. Is this a pipe dream or is this something that could work in reality? - It's certainly something that could work in reality, and I think more businesses need to take that on. And I think a lot of businesses are doing it. What's important is also to do it the right way. So we see a lot of the time businesses go, you know, I need to bring on a black shareholder. There's this guy that's been working with me for the past 10 years, he's great, and I want him to be a shareholder. Have you prepared that person to actually have a C-suite role? - Mm-hmm. - So it's not just about being a great person, that's great. Great people are a dime a dozen, there are so many. Is that person able to take on that role? - 'Cause this is the other thing. I mean, very often these people get shoved into roles that they, you're setting them up to fail.

- Exactly, and this is what we see happening constantly is you hear about businesses and, you know, there was a black shareholder. And when I say black, of course, once again, African, Indian, kind of Chinese, whatever the case might be. There was this black shareholder there and the business failed because they didn't know what they were doing and they were just put there. No one said to do that. - You chose to do that. - Yeah. - You should be picking the right person for that role as the owner of the business when you bring them on board. - Absolutely, so true. It's almost time, I cannot believe it. It is almost time. In fact, my little clock here is telling me that we're about to run out of time. So the big question is, Zara, where do people get hold of you guys? - People can get hold of us on our website, www.uzensele.com. And we'd appreciate if you do want to engage with us on our website, there is an inquire here button. Fill that in so that we can have the information at hand when we engage with you to discuss properly what your requirements are. We're also available on Twitter, @uzensele, on LinkedIn, @uzenseleholdings, and at our office, 012-346-5174. - All right, and you would be happy if somebody has a question, just a question.

You'd be happy to kind of answer that via the email or something. And I think you've made it very clear over the course of this interview that if people do approach you and want to engage, you will tell them what they need to do, how they need to do it. It's been an absolute pleasure and a privilege, something that I thought was this horrible, dark, scary thing that we were gonna be talking about in terms of funding. You've made it a whole lot clearer. I'm sorry we've had only an hour to do it in, but again, if you'd like to get hold of any of the team there, it is uzensele.com. Thank you so much, Sarah. Have yourself a wonderful evening. Time for me to get up and out of here. We'll be back again next week with more "What's Involved." Before I go, though, one last thing. Thanks for listening. - David Watts on Mix 93.8.