Memoirs Of A Safari Guide — Luxury Tents, Hot Water Bottles, and Mistaken Creatures

what's your dream what's your goal what's your motivation what's important to you what's your passion what can you do to change the world this is what's involved conversations with thought leaders and change makers from around the world hear stories of hope and inspiration to help motivate people like you to live your life find your passion passion and live your dream together we can all bring positive change to our world now here's your host David Watts and once again it is another edition of what's involved and and I've been looking forward to talking to these guys and also you know feeling a little jealous who am I talking about and what am I talking about well I'm talking about Andrew Ray and Peter Neville and they've just released a book recently called memoirs of a Safari guide and I got to tell you it's probably one of the best books I've read and not just because I've been in the industry and I can relate to so many of these things and more to the unsaid things having been there but anyway we're gonna get into all of this Andrew Peter good day welcome great to have you on the show with us thanks for having us right now that we got the intros parts or the intro part out of the way let's let's just get straight in we'll start with you Andrew give us a bit of your background a bit of your history you know you were you were born amidst the sprawling plains of Africa however it was for you let us know sure David I born and raised in in northern suburban Joburg in the in the 70s you know the country folk will remember what what that looked like back then and had had no real basis for the Safari industry in the sense that you know my dad's my dad's a retired clergyman I I never really plugged into the industry that way but I have I have parents who introduced me to Africa's wild spaces in in a holiday from a holiday perspective very early on and so I was exposed to all these amazing destinations you know parts of Botswana and Zimbabwe and the Kruger was a regular you know hiking in the burg that that was holiday for our family and so at a really early age I was exposed and and in a really positive way and just had it had this amazing very early on appreciation and love for all things wild and and open and and that's that's you know as a kid I just had this single-minded obsession with getting into the bush as soon as I was finished with school and and studies University I studied nature conservation and moved into the industry in the in the early 90s as the country and its politics were changing and kind of I happenstance found myself in the Safari industry and found out that I really loved it I loved engaging with people and showing these beautiful places to them and and that was 30 years ago I haven't looked back yeah that's that's me in a nutshell Wow okay so let's move on to unto you Peter tell us a little bit about your background in your history because you're not a South African I've already picked that up by your voice so so jump in and let us know about Peter I'm a little bit peculiar these days I was born and raised in the UK and just about the time Andrew was being born I had a shed full in a garden full of all sorts of animals so I come very much from the kind of companion animal end of life I now live in Croatia and I have a Finnish residency so life gets more and more crazy but back in the early 80s my brother drove a Land Rover from London to Nairobi and when he got there and done it he invited me to come out and take over the Land Rover and and drive around Kenya and I'd never been out of Europe at that point so I duly did and I spent two or three months from north to southeast to west in Kenya and I got infected I got infected with the Africa bug and and you know one it's like malaria you never get rid of it once it's in your system once you've sat in a herd of 500 elephants once you've you know been caught outside the truck and heard a line two feet away you know you are infected and so I I contrived you know to to get back to Africa and I didn't really make it I went on a different career in animal behavior in the UK and I didn't really get back to Africa until I was invited by the lovely South African veterinary Association to come out and give a series of lectures in 1991 so I then was lucky enough at someone else's expense to tour your lovely country and that just you know that the infection rose up mightily and from then on I were just contriving ways to try to get out to anywhere in Africa frankly but it kind of into in the early 2000s only minor Oxford University had a PhD student studying the African wild dog up in the Limpopo and I was heading down to give another lecture actually in Cape Town and I thought well you know what I'm gonna fly up there and see what this is all about because I've never seen an African wild dog I'd seen everything but not an African wild dog oh and leopards I'd only ever seen the backside of the leopard so I went out there and had a one-time thought you know what I can start running safaris here I've got lots of dog and cat and veterinary colleagues by now I was teaching in America by then at the Ohio State University and I thought you know I'm gonna put group trips on so I did and that all went extremely well I still never saw I saw lots of wild dogs but I never saw more than a backside of the leopard until 2015 when I wanted to put a trip together for family and friends and a mutual friend when the Collinson as was introduced me to Andrew and from then on my my old life dissipated and my new life started you know I I was in it took me a long time but now my life is all about running backwards and forwards to Africa all the time with Andrew company race safaris so it's a tough laugh it's a nemesis I couldn't be happier Andrew sorry Peter Andrew just tell me quickly so you guys got together initially for a safari and while you're on the vehicle driving around and I want to get into why the car was called biscuit did you and Peter headed off straight away or or did he exhibit that level of passion and knowledge did you see that little sparkle because I've noticed all of us who love nature the environment wildlife particularly going into the big five areas we've got a little twinkle in our eye and that tends to dull when we're not there but did you notice that absolutely for me it was it was it was a kindred spirit you know the fact that we we laugh at the same stuff we're mad about Monty Python and the goons and that kind of British humor or off off kilter British humor we we we kind of there's a great kind of guiding chemistry and it goes way more than just one's knowledge and experience and Peter's enormously knowledgeable it's it's that chemistry surrounding hosting clients and and people having a good time and and he was the he was the whole package and we became this this kind of weird duo that just sort of fed off one another's huge a sense of humor and and ability to to tell to tell yarns and create stories and Peter Peter's Peter's angle on on animal behavior in injects a very interesting component into guiding you know I've always been this interpretive guy I think we all were raised to interpret what you're seeing and and this kind of Safari guiding structured thing that we're all used to and in comes this behaviorist this professor in animal behavior who starts looking at things from a very different perspective and he tells the story in a in a really emphatic and profound way how brain chemistry dictates how the animal moves and when that's put onto the back of a Safari vehicle people are fascinated and I watched this and looking at people eating out of his hand while he's busy talking about what this lioness is busy doing and I I just thought I've got to get this guy onto every Safari vehicle anywhere in Africa that I can because that it's an it's an unusual and fascinating angle and yeah that that Safari in 2015 we sat on this we just assisted with the the notching of a rhino with a Pilansburg Wildlife Foundation and we kind of looked at each other with a logger in hand and and he said to me we have to talk and that was that was history the rest is history as it were listen I think I think that part of it is wonderful but just give us a bit of a bit of clarity as well in terms of race safaris you started off you said in the guiding industry it's no secret that I used to be an open vehicle guide as well absolutely loved it we've already established off air that we know some of the same people but but what made you take the leap from guiding and being a freelance guard to going okay this is this is something that I want to do and I want to run my own business I think David I think you you a lot of folk in there in their sort of early 40s thought to get this strange perspective that that they know enough now to try and do something for themselves I think I caught that sickness at around that age but it it it came from a you know a really fascinating lifetime of employment within the industry not just from a freelance perspective but you know I developed game reserves for foreign investors in the Eastern Cape we did a stint my wife and I running a lodge in Botswana and we finished up at a lodge near Mapungubwe in right up in the north in Limpopo and the owners there were very keen on us taking over more and more of the established business and and we acquired in the ten years we were there quite a quite a nice chunk of sweat equities which when the lodge got sold to Dutch investors we sort of looked at this and said well if we're ever gonna do anything for ourselves here's the here's the finances and here's the the wherewithal and we think we know what we're doing and we have a reasonable following in terms of a database and so Ray Safaris was born and it's really it's founded on an enormous love for adventure and for exploration and so as quickly as possible I wanted to get folk to Madagascar to to the Serengeti to look at the migration to trek gorillas in Uganda and so Ray Safaris became more than just open vehicles and game lodges in southern Africa we started to push the boundaries of private safari guiding across the length and breadth of the continent and more recently off-continent Peter and I got back from Antarctica in the middle of December so so yeah it's become this big adventure privately guided personally hosted adventure safari brand that goes to look at the edge of what is developed and to look at what's on the other side and and revel in the wildlife and the wild spaces that are there this is what's involved my special guests are none other than Andrew Ray and Peter Neville we're gonna be back here just after this I'm gonna take some time to just quietly wipe the drool off of my mouth more than a little green at the moment we'll be back in just a bit it is what's involved it's so good to have you along with us this is what's involved don't forget to subscribe and leave a review more next and we're back what's involved it is my special guest Andrew Ray and Peter Neville talking about a book that was launched a little while ago called memoirs of a safari guide and I want to get into the book in just a bit gentlemen first and foremost it's a brilliant book I love it but thank you the illustrations men the illustrations I've had the privilege of knowing and chatting to excuse me dr. Jack who is an illustrator based in in the low felt as well and and this this is right up the I mean it's it's it's right up the the illustrator's a guy by the name of Russell Jones how did you fit into the mix Russell's a very old mate of mine we collaborated on on a lot of books in the past he's a he's a designer originally and an illustrator you know a proper one but he he's also a jazz saxophonist and he introduced me to jazz music for which I thank him for forever but he's because he's also you know wickedly oriented so we say he sees his life very strangely when it comes to animals which he's not particularly an animal person but the stories I've had from companion animal days and then of course these safaris really seem to tickle his fancy so he he set to work on on this book for us and produced what he does and he captures the essence very very well and I have to say it's quite rude because you know some of those cartoons look suspiciously like me and Andrew he's a lovely guy and the fact I was back in the UK not long ago and we hung out for a few days and cooked up some more ideas for the future so yeah great listen I'm gonna put this out there right now this this cannot be the only one okay for some reason this this book and the way it's put together for me is while it talks about Africa and your guiding and the Africa I love to throw back to like Gerald Durrell for some reason sure I don't know why okay because but it is and then it hugs at my heartstrings so I'm gonna ask you right now I can only ask us at the end of the the interview but I can't wait is there going to be more memoirs are they going to be further memoirs of a safari guide I think so yeah I think you better we've talked about it and you know the business continues and and we've got some exciting destinations coming up that are gonna be new for us as private guides so yeah you know the stories are gonna continue I think we're probably half we've got half the material for a new book already in these last couple of years so yeah I think so I think they'll be the further memoirs or the the the additional memoirs we'll figure out a title there's gotta be there's no argument you've said it now on radio it's gotta happen those are the ones those are the ones I'd like to sort of private copy of these because as I said having been involved in the guarding industry for quite a few years myself as I said earlier on the stories are great but reading between the lines it's the ones you you leave out I have some that I actually still blush when I remember back to them but anyway so now we you've got this and you're sounding both of you exceptionally sort of happy and positive and everything I know because I'm still in touch with a lot of the guards covered wipe them out covered white tourism out and and I saw people whose lives were guiding not being able to get into the bush not being able to do anything I was fortunate that I'd moved away we're in Pretoria East at the moment and I'm lucky enough to live in a nice big plot with all sorts of natural bush and and a fair amount of wildlife that wonders around and I think big and dangerous though so that's kind of kept me a bit sane but the rest of these guys how did it affect you guys well I mean you're holding a copy of one of the products of lockdown I mean essentially Peter and I during hard lockdown wrote wrote books he was sitting in Finland Finnish winters are not particularly pleasant I don't know about personal experience but he can tell you I'm sure and so and actually Peter conjured up this idea of men we're climbing the walls here let's let's let's start collaborating on on a book and and so sanity was was was maintained on the basis that we had we had some projects to work on and and yeah that that's what we did certainly also from a business perspective blessed to have a whole safari family of clientele that that had faith in our in our our brand and didn't didn't want their deposits back or anything like that they postponed everything down the line until covert was was essentially not a thing anymore and we could resume and on the basis of of that kind of faith and trust we were able to tick along through those two dark years so yeah incredibly fortunate I'm incredibly glad that you did manage to tick along and I'm still baffled about the fact that for two years we had covered and the world was coming to an end in one day we woke up they went that's not so serious carry on just carry on what I was straight down to South Africa as soon as I could get out of Finland which actually didn't suffer much in terms of lockdown but we couldn't travel overseas but I was on the first plane down probably picked up the latest variant and took it back to Finland so you must have been incredibly popular but anyway they got me right at the airport I had no symptoms I had nothing nothing wrong with me and they just said are you they phoned me up in the middle of the night and said you're not going anywhere for a couple of weeks which kind of records you know what the only thing that I think is an excuse for you not living here Peter is the fact that from what I've seen and again no first-hand experience but Croatia is a beautiful country in and of itself it's stunning my partner is half Finnish half Croatian so we're testing out the other half of a DNA if you see what I mean because I'm afraid the UK is a no-go zone for me these days but yeah it's a fabulous country we live right in the middle of Zagreb the capital everything's you know a walkable distance it's very affordable people are lovely they're absolutely friendly and the countryside which we've been exploring a bit this month just just gorgeous I mean I always find wherever there's wine and good food people are happy you know it's like South Africa it's it's that's my problem here there's no wildlife there's bears and there's wolves and I've been involved with the guys here at the vet school and the conservation units but you know everything hibernates and clears off in the winter so you I haven't seen anything yet I've seen where they've been which has been quite the same yeah anyway listen we've got to talk about the book we're gonna do that when we come back this is what's involved my special guests Andrew Ray and Peter Neville we're talking about their book memoirs of a safari guide even if you're not remotely into wildlife or safaris or anything like that but you are looking for entertainment and a damn good laugh this is a book for you go out get it we'll discuss where you can get it a little later on as well but we will be back and finding out about some of the stories in just a little bit thank you for being with us we'll be back in a bit we'll be right back with more what's involved David would love to hear from you to leave a voice message visit what's involved comm and click drop me a voice note and we're back what's involved it is with my special guests and we rape it in Neville we're talking memoirs of a safari guide you know you mentioned something earlier and do that that when you're on this vehicle with Peter just just the way he knows of animal behaviors etc etc and I have something that will stick in my head forever or a couple of them but the one is I used to work with Ian Mullen who I believe you know as well and Ian took us out when we were still training and he told us a story about turning rocks into leopards which maybe we should share with Peter but just that and the way he wove everything together and this behavior and the how and the why I was hooked and I mean I am by heart a storyteller that's why I do what I do is stories and I think stories are so incredibly important let's get into yours I mean you this is a bunch of stories so I'm gonna let us just pick one or two as you will and just share some that that we're memorable with us sure I'll go first yeah I mean it's it's it's a lifetime of stories that just make one chortle every time you think about them but I think that the one for me that that's that I think of first when I think of this book had to do with a couple from the states that checked into a lodge that we were managing in the Timbavati just back in the late 90s and they were very very from the from the moment they arrived very clearly not in their comfort zone these were people that's by virtue of having had neighbors that had gone on safari had booked it to keep up with the Jones's or for whatever reason but these were not nature people they were not folk that generally took holidays of this of this type and had now come rattling to Africa on an airplane and you know a long sort of five six-hour transfer down from from Joburg down to the low felt getting ever more progressively into wilderness and dirt roads and corrugations and and elephants and things like that so by the time they arrived at the lodge they hadn't even started the safari yet and the eyes were wide and and you know anything that that hist or Crete they they were on edge and looking around it was winter the camp we managed in the Timbavati was was a high-end luxury camp but in the classic East African style it was under tents it was it was under canvas so beautifully appointed on sweet bedrooms etc but under canvas and so we showed these folk as gingerly as we could to where they were sleeping and they'd missed the game drive they got in quite late so they wandered up and we set settled them down in the boma game drives arrived back drinks were being had the fire was going it was delightful and and then it was time for everybody to be walked back to their to their abodes and this was an unfenced camp in the Timbavati big five roaming freely and so one is is escorted back with a guide who has a rifle and a torch flashlight and the it was winter tents are not known for keeping you warm and so water bottles hot water bottles are inserted when our staff went to do the turn downs for the beds these beautiful hot water bottles were inserted deep inside the bed to to warm up the bedding ahead of ones going to bed and so these folk were taken to the tents safely ensconced inside and everybody sort of scattered now it was time to clean up and pack away but 10 minutes later blood curdling screams issuing from this particular tent and so you know we're heading down with with heavy caliber rifles and spotlights expecting you know an elephant to be tearing it apart or a leopard inside doing doing something nasty and we get there and the scene we were greeted with is just something enormously bizarre what had happened was the folk had had entered the tent now exceptionally nervous after all that they've been exposed to you in the last few hours and had noticed these two lumps under the bed covers and and of course the gentleman reached for we had walking sticks and umbrellas in a in a in a thing next to the the entrance of the tent inside he picked up one of the walking sticks one of the kiddies and he gently prodded one of the lumps and of course it's a water bottle so it's gonna go blue blue blue and it's gonna move in a in a in quite a disturbing way and of course this this was this showed them that there was something alive and terrible inside the bed and so he began swatting these two lumps on on the bed until one of them burst and of course that just looked like he killed it and it was bleeding all the while the missus is standing at the furthest end of of where she could stand safely in the tent screaming as as if her life was ending so we arrived to see this and and literally I mean took ages to settle them down and next morning they they had breakfast and were checking out they couldn't get the hell out fast enough and and yes obviously prompted us from then onwards when you arrived at Bowman or you were leaving Bowman dinner on a winter's Eve to go and go to your tent and be guided to your tent water bottles from then onwards were handed to you and explain to putting them into the tent but yeah that one that one just you just realized that you take a lot for granted when you live and work there and folk that come from you know downtown Detroit or wherever it is it's it might as well be from another planet in many respects and so you've got to really walk them through it in terms of what's there and how it all works but yeah that was that was one that that that that's swatting of a water bottle that just that blew me away you've got to hit a water bottle fairly hard to get the thing let's be honest you can imagine how much adrenaline was driving that guy there was a there was a python or something inside there I don't know when I was when I was guiding we often used to do tours for a Belgian to a company which involved us going from Nels great down to our tempo picking them up back there to a place in Hayes of UX etc etc and the I was I was chosen to to work for this company because I had a fairly good understanding of free cons and and there's a whole lot more to the story but I'll just give you an I suppose the radio friendly but is every time I stopped at a toll gate to pay the toll I did to them can I please have the slip which resulted in gales of laughter from behind me from these Belgians and I had no idea what they were going on about but the women were starting to look at me like I was really weird and eventually we got to the lots that thought I said you got to tell me you know why are you laughing like this and in Flemish a slip is your underwear so apparently I'd been I'd been asking the toll gate attendants to hand me the underwear so these are things that happened indeed now there's more there's more stories there's many more stories one of the things though that I've grown to love over the over the years is the honey badger and and I had I was fortunate enough to have a personal relationship with a honey badger by the name of Stoffel who was at Mahalo Hollow with Brian Jones yeah yeah Stoffel Stoffel there you go look at that because you can't see this so I'm gonna tell you just showed me his t-shirt he's got Mahalo Hollow on there and Stoffel was one of the most amazing honey badgers I'd ever met and his favorite thing is you could grab him and hold him and then roll him like a bowling ball and that was the best thing ever in his life he was also a major escape artist and they they had a lion there as well at the time called big boy who was literally one of the biggest lions I've ever seen in my life and one day industrious Stoffel escaped and got into big boys cage and we were there and we heard this pitiful pitiful noise coming from big boys cage and there he was sitting on top of his little concrete enclosure with Stoffel marching around underneath going come down buddy come down and I will show you who's boss you guys have a similar story don't you Peter okay let me go and see if I can find it again because I did actually mark several several places in the book but of course now that I'm trying to find it I won't be able to it's in the bollocks page 41 of memoirs of a safari guide and and I just love the cartoon there with this lion facing this honey badge and the only badgers going go ahead punk make my day

it revolved around just the the amongst certain ethnicities in in southern Africa there's this belief that honey badges in order to to overpower them an animal of the male gender especially a bigger animal they go straight for the for the for the scrotum and and on that basis when we when we were on foot safari and I had trackers or colleagues with me from from the Shangan tribe and if we if we encountered honey badger on those walks you'd find them moving quickly in the opposite direction with both hands you know so yeah it was just that you know and when you when you haven't had that basis of understanding of the species you just wonder the whole time why these guys immediately go to protect their their nether bits and then you realize oh hold on a sec there's this belief that that's what he's gonna go for first interestingly enough interestingly enough I mean the show on people when we were up in in our training area we had a Gideon he was our Shangan tracker and they are pretty much fearless say it's not from being a damn fun track is a pretty much fearless but yeah the honey badger story is that's that's the one thing yeah no actually I do have a honey badger story would you work where my brain was going when you asked me honey badgers it's funny it'll be in the next book in my past life one of the things I did was got new to and release schemes for feral cats or stray cats or cats that live around hotels so I would you know come into a country are armed with all sorts of traps and the whole veterinary business did to get them you know treated and you said and then the healthy ones can go back whether they looked after and keep the rodents down was the theory and I was in a hotel by time and set all my traps out at night and did my rounds last thing and there was a big gray gnarling creature that certainly wasn't a cat in one of my traps and the manager of the hotel was with me a Dutch guy and he said I'll leave you to that one and he just ran off he just went and I'm standing there in the middle of nowhere looking at this angry thing inside and somehow I've got to open the trap and release him you see and I look around and this guy's gone inside a little out building and he's looking at me through the window laughing you see so well okay and I worked on a way to open the lever of the trap so that the animal which I didn't know what it was at that point couldn't come out the way he went in as it were so I did that and this thing just shot out and ran off the cover and you know all I saw was a kind of flash of gray and black and white and so on and so I just set the trap again to try and catch some cats and you know just thought I've got some local beastie there by mistake you know and I came again I said to this guy what were you doing you know where did you go you're supposed to be kind of helping me transfer cats into a carrying cage so that I can put them in the car and off to the vet and everything else and he said I said that was a honey badger he said they go for your nuts you know I'm not hanging around helping you. Thanks for telling me man. There is something about them they are spectacular animals and they've got this shuffling walk which is it's filled with intent and purpose and it's one of those you know do not get in my way mortals because I will just do bad things to you and yet I just I think they're amazing animals there's so many more stories gentlemen and I wish we had time to discuss them and to talk about them sadly we don't we're running out of time when we come back though we're going to wrap it up find out a bit more about you guys where people can get hold of you maybe some of our locals or indeed internationally the podcast is listened to internationally we'd like to get hold of you guys and go on a safari this is what's involved in wrapping it up when we come back with my special guests Andrew Ray and Peter Neville authors of Memoirs of a safari guide back in a bit hey like what you're hearing share the podcast with your family and friends and spread the word this is what's involved and we're back wrapping it up my special guests have been Andrew Ray and Peter Neville memoirs of a safari guide that we are wrapping it up so the books out Andrew and and it's been out for a while now available in most good bookstores yeah we we've got some wonderful publicity folk that are helping us advertise and distribute the book the probably the quickest way to get get one's hands on it inside South Africa is is online if if one looks up willow trading willowtradingsa.co.za is where one can acquire a copy that that will then be sent to you Peter and I actually have two books up on that with these publicity folk one is called African Predators which is basically a field guide focusing on the large cat and dog like carnivores of Africa and then of course memoirs of a safari guide so willowtrading if one Google's that or takes a look online from a South African perspective that's access to the hard copies and obviously they're working on distribution into into stores and game lodges and things of that ilk and then for folk outside of the country on amazon.com it's available as a as an eat as an e-book if you can and take this from me okay if you can rather get the actual physical book the e-book is great but there's there's something about having a book in your hands and particularly those particularly this one with the stories and stuff like it I'm fanatical about my books and then people often say to me but doesn't even look like you read it the spine isn't even cracked I cannot say the same for this one because I just you know I need a little bit of a pick-me-up and a little bit of a reminder I'll go and pay to pick a story read it and I'll feel much better afterwards so get hold of it Peter you've also got other publications available if somebody wants to find out a bit more about Peter Neville where do they go again the best way is just dial me up on Amazon and all the books I've ever done which are mainly about you know domestic cats and dogs but we just put out another one another covid production when we'd finished memoirs of the safari guide and African predators I got onto Russell Jones the cartoonist and said let's let's round up my old career with a book called do pets need shrinks which is a look at all the crazy cats and dog cases that I've seen over 30 years in treating the you know the totally deranged members of the canine and feline world so that's just out that's only available on Amazon Kindle at the moment but literally just out another you know people often thank covid for us three as you were talking about this I'm thinking I was just thinking to myself and don't judge okay just don't judge but we have we have nine dogs yeah and and we've got so of those nine dogs there are one two three four Jack Russell's one dash hunt and then we move on to a staffy a staffy cross bull terrier and two rot filers and our belief and now you know how we wanted our perfect life to be is that they would all live happily together they didn't so now now we have upstairs indoor animals we have outside backyard animals and we have downstairs outside animals and so far the separation seems to be working we might need your help either we might need your help also Andrew if somebody if somebody's interested in going listen these guys sound like I mean I would sign up yesterday if I could to join you on a safari but if somebody wants to go on a safari they want to find out more about what race safari is all about where do they go for that website is www.ray safaris with an s on the end one word dot co dot zay and our various emails are on there in terms of a discussion about what one would like to do and some of our set departures that we that we we market every year to to see the migration in in northern Tanzania guerrilla trekking in Uganda we're in Galapagos in March next year so those kinds of departures are showcased on the website wonderful stuff guys I don't wish another pandemic on any of us but I do wish that second book as I said because I'm gonna wipe this one out in the next month or so so we need to we need to make a plan there thank you so much to both of you for taking the time out and having a chat to us it is an incredible book it's a book that'll just bring a smile to your face and it's amazing and we didn't even get to talk about biscuits we didn't get to talk about the sleepwalking rhinos or the boots eating hyenas so there's a lot more get the book my favorite the cleavage diving gecko sounds like a gecko off to my own heart so much for your time we wish you all the very very best thank you thanks for having us there we go wraps it up for this edition of what's involved to each and every one of you take care look after yourselves and thank you for listening thanks for listening to what's involved we hope this episode inspires you to find your passion and live your dream don't forget to rate review and share the podcast and to see what's happening what's going on and what's coming follow what's involved on Facebook and Twitter and what's involved thanks again for listening