Al J Venter — Takka Takka Bom Bom A South African War Correspondent’s Story

what's your dream what's your goal what's your motivation what's important to you what's your passion what can you do to change the world this is what's involved conversations with thought leaders and change makers from around the world hear stories of hope and inspiration to help motivate people like you to live your life find your passion passion and live your dream together we could all bring positive change to our world now here's your host David Watts once again it is what's involved my special guest any face to face I can't believe this so long I have not been face to face and now I get to go out and meet with a great author who am I talking about El Fenta and El is the author of a book called taka taka bomb bomb it's a South African war correspondence story hello welcome well thank you let's really be fit and getting me out here yeah it's fantastic and I mean what a great book we're gonna get into the book but before just a little bit of El's history because you were born in South Africa and and earlier on and I don't believe it for a second you you said to me that you're in your 84th year and I was doing some maths and I just I can't because you don't look at you look like maybe a sprightly 65 year old maybe what you're not telling your readers is that you're actually being paid by me to be a public relationship anyway before we get into that El tell us a little bit just a brief overview of your life because I'm very interested how you started off here in South Africa and and suddenly or not suddenly but as part of the journey became a war correspondent because you know I can't think of anybody who wakes up in the morning guys yeah I'd like to go and visit a war today well I'll come to that but in the first place I owe my life the way I've chewed the road to Manage Brothers College which had lots and lots of brothers teachers that from Ireland Scotland and England and they imparted to us an enormous amount of the British culture especially the literature and as a border I didn't bother so much about learning Latin declensions I read I was supposed to which is why I didn't do very well at school at all but that's the way it is and I read I read omnivorously I led from top to bottom the simple people and the learned people and I by the time I was 14 for example I was very much intrigued by World War II and the British had published by then some some editions of this the war at sea by Captain Roscoe and I asked my mom to buy me I think it's about 10 or 12 volumes now but in those days about three or four already used it progressing and I said to her can you buy me one of these books and I mean each one was about two inches thick and I ended up reading about Kwajalein in the Battle of Iwo Jima and the sinking of the Shnarl horse I knew an enormous amount about World War II and and that intrigued me because these were taking places in areas where I I could only read about and then it and I wanted to go and see for myself that was my intention and of course I had to stay I had to stay at school and the first thing I did when I did finish at school was join the Navy immediately I've been a month down so going from a religious environment to the Navy where I to the Navy straight in and I stayed three years and it was a peacetime Navy it wasn't like being conscripted and they put me they put me through a pretty tough I was a youngest man on the ship for them for them for the first year but with basic training it's all done they really not you know lots of spots with us and the very first I've got to the ship in the SAS transponder the very first trip we made was an emergency trip down to the ice Prince Edward Island Marion Island oh yes yeah I mean here's this guy who's I mean in the protected environment suddenly going ashore on Marion Island and the skipper that the coccyx of the boat carrying a hand grenade with the pin drawn in his right hand because of the problem with killer whales and there had been problems where I suppose that's one way to sort out a killer whale you drop that thing over over and it makes a big bang and the killer whales are gone but our walkers were quite aggressive down there compared to the orchards that you get in the Pacific Northwest you know in theory they more peace-loving yeah anyhow let's go into places this is why I read and I looked at the maps and I studied and I what where I could go and what I'm gonna do and I applied for a job with Harry Selby in the Oak of Ongoswams he'd been in Kenya before and he was very kindly read back a letter he said my you know very kind of you to talk to me but he said I'd suggest you finish the schooling first you mentioned earlier you were 14 or something when you went okay I've done enough of the school thing I'd like to go to work there yeah well you know my dad worked on the railways so I he got a free ticket for me once a year and he tell me where do you want to go with your free ticket this time so I said all the school I managed others had lots of boys from Madagascar the Congo from Tanganyika as it was called in those days with the two Rhodesians and they and my friends who came from there would come and spend their short holidays with me and I would go spend the long holidays with them and we go by train three days to get to the copper belt Wow there must have been some adventures there but I'm not sure we're gonna get into those adventures yes so you what you are now in the Navy so how did we transition from the Navy into a war correspondent because as I said initially my mind boggers I'm like you know I don't want to go and visit a wall no way do I know it's all accidental but I'll come to that okay so I get this shot after three years from the Navy and I hitchhike up Africa the first thing boy here I'm off to Mombasa down up to down into the Rift Valley new world a new culture it was so British Tanganyika it hadn't been quite what it only became Tanzania later and then Kenya and I could and I wandered around I met people and eventually ended up at Mombasa docks so I said I wandered along and I saw a Swedish and Norwegian ship and the guy waved to me I and I said I signed with a made sign language was too far away I said can I come up he said sure come on I went up and I said listen you think you can give me a lift to your next port you said well we're going to Montreal that's on the other side of the world so I said hell I said that would be a hell of a nice place to go you know what do you want to come by so I said yes I've been in the Navy I can you know I work my passage he said you're on so I went to I went to Montreal and and there I worked in Canada for six months I worked as a lumberjack in tobacco and and in mining you know I went to the mine and the guy said to me gold mine he said to me have you got any experience I said hey what do you mean he said have you got any tickets and I had been in the with mining boys and I knew that you had tickets you had all sorts of colored tickets so you got your blasting so I said where do I come from I come from South Africa the guy said yes I said how many tickets I said I've got all of them well of course I'm this is a load of rubbish we gave me the job anyway and so then from there I went to London and I got off the ship in Southampton I've got myself a place in in Patney I look for a job I got it and I started my studies that week at the Baltic Exchange and that ended up with me becoming a fellow of the Institute of Childhood Shipbrokers one of the most august professional qualifications you can get in the city so from somebody who didn't like school and learning you picked because I is interested in the subject and what is curious here is that I got a bad metric but with when I passed my fellowship I said I asked him eventually how did I do can you give me where did I stand she said we don't give results he said but we can tell you that you're in the top five of the overseas students sure and now I'm stuck with a very fine qualification I'd be working in the day shipping because shipping I'd been in the Navy and I came back to South Africa and I started to work and I worked to work for a while did a lot started writing and at a certain point I was getting published all over the place and I went back to London work I set up interestingly here I set up Steiner line the ferry service between Britain and France goodness okay I got to London the second time and I'd had a letter of introduction to Clarkson's the chairman of Clarkson's and tiny Musgrave who played tennis with South Africa was his old buddy from a mall and and I had an invite to go and see the chairman so Alexander Glenn on the Monday morning and I went in to this fine mahogany panel thing the chamber with all the directors were telling talking about what they did over the weekend and he came over and introduced himself nice guy they put his hand in my soul he said how'd you like to run your own shipping line I was 27 years old then Wow okay obviously I must have done quite well in South Africa yeah the average Englishman would say well I've never done that before but I said well what is it he said well we got we want to start the fellow called Stan Alson is starting a shipping ferry daily ferry service between Tilbury and Calais is called the Londoner how would you like to take that over and I said I'm on he says you've got four months and I was able to hire my own staff I and I what I did was I hired colonials because the British went on strike all the time so I got Canadian South Africans New Zealanders I got a cop from Fiji they're all colonials and it all prepared to work because they all studied this is the thing in London you could go you did you you qualified in your home countries and he went to London to do your two years for additional background all these guys had arrived in London to do their two years and they they were very happy to work for 10 hours a day I was gonna pay them a good wage and in four months we got the London on on online we got it going between Tilbury and Calais it is an incredible adventure that's it's it's amazing and we need to we need to still get on to how you became a war correspondent in the meantime he says this is what's involved my special guest is Al Jay Fenter we're talking about his book tuck a tuck a bomb bomb and we'll be back in just a bit and catch up where we left off hey like what you're hearing share the podcast with your family and friends and spread the word this is what's involved and we're back with my guest LJ Fenter and the book is tuck a tuck a bomb bomb brilliant book to me what they are I mean it truly is you know the sapler is is a South African war correspondent story and what a story it is but so many little stories now just before we went to the break we we were telling and you just now opened up this ferry between Calais and what's what's the inner line today is one of the biggest fairy lines in the world yeah and I did the I said the British one to begin with but after four months successful they said to me now take it easy oh thank you very much go to the go to the travel office write yourself a ticket to anywhere in the world you want you've got a month's holiday Wow like an idiot I could have gone to I could have gone to Hawaii who knows where but I went to but I went to Morocco and it wasn't very pleasant but never mind and then that kept that way for a few for a few months and I cut and I was not doing anything and the manage director Ken Holmes a nice guy he said to me after two months he said oh he said go home and write and when you know you like to write thank you I said yes he said well go home and write and and we'll get this next project going and they never did and after three months I thought no man I wanted I want to work so I wrote to three British companies that had businesses in Nigeria I'd come up the coast on a second Trans Africa's overland trip four months and I love Nigeria five years after independence it was working very well and I wrote to those three companies and I said I like a job this is my background I was I'm a fellow of these you should have started showbrokers and all three came back and offered me a job so I took the biggest shot hold and I just one dance I mean you should do and I I flew to Nigeria two days after the army mutiny had taken over the country so suddenly I'm in a totally different country because there's been a lot of killings the some of the top leaders had been assassinated some of them in their beds and and I'm now in what was a wonderfully peaceable country thrust into a situation who's tenuous is it not very nice at all and for six months I wandered around Nigeria doing my job and and learning and getting to know what was going on because that was what I was employed to do but I came back to the office after having traveled on the third or fourth but I came back to the office I said you know things are not good are there's gonna be another revolution and the manager looked at me and he said for God's sake she says get on with your job and ignore the politics I'll see you know this is a reality and then what I see is it you're talking rubbish a British guy very very pompous individual and I then read a little an article for new chick you remember the old new chick well it's a the biggest news magazine in his day in South Africa and if I actually don't but anyway the thing is that I was also writing for new bi and various ABC news and so on it's radio in those days and I predicted another army mutiny and I they published a full-scale cover story on my time in Nigeria ending off saying Alfonso says there's gonna be another army mutiny and I did the same for hastenow at the Afrikaans for healing I was really good in Afrikaans but so they translated so they published both of them two weeks later there was a second army mutiny and I could do no wrong after that and because I was a big components sort of you know but it was so damn obvious and the strange thing about is neither the British or the American intelligence they were caught with their pants down because they didn't leave their offices they didn't wander around the countryside and they didn't talk to people in faraway places where it was all happening so I was that is how I became a war correspondent because with the second army mutiny I was thrust right into the planning for that second army mutiny are taking place 50 yards from my office at a Keijo airport the mutineers were all there good gracious no and then we're getting now to to the book Alan and and what a great book I gotta tell you but the title taka taka bomb bomb I've been in the military in South Africa when it was compulsory so I made up my own kind of what that means to me yes I wonder if I'm right so tell me about that title where does that come from well as a little boy my father was in the row is in World War two and he achieved quite a lot because they made him responsible for handling the convoys backwards and forwards to Europe I'll go away P mm-hmm so he had been in the First World War it's kind of days sweet doesn't it just a little and he so he would amuse me with the word taka taka bomb bomb and you know when he put me to bed and I'd laugh and he'd giggle and and he he told me years later that he'd fought in Tanganyika against the Germans for letter for back South Africans had 10 20 thousand troops up in Tanganyika in the First World War and he was one of them Wow and he was caught in an ambush in the north somewhere and the Germans had black safari very fine African troops Swahili troops so they called her scarries and this Swahili people referred to the maxim machine gun as a taka taka bomb that's that's kind of where I was going I was going with with it's the sound of automatic yeah heavy weapons fire yeah and when I first said that to some of the people they were like okay but and when you hear something like that you can see exactly where that taka taka bomb bomb comes from so it started off as as a joke and then you found out more and more about it but where did you go then from from that first article when and sort of okay so I then after because I was such an obnoxious individual according to the British guy who was saying warning about the revolution they said I planned to leave the country and I then didn't tell them but they fired me but I had it all planned because I was going to go back overland through Angola which was then at war mmm and I there's various things that come out in the book that are too lengthy to talk about how I how I had traded an area near the Russian radio station in West Africa travel down and wrote to the Portuguese after I'd left to a man and colonel that I knew and I said I'd like to go cover your war in Angola and I knew him quite well in London and he said send me your passport Wow but now in those days because I'm trying to get my head around this because you've literally traveled to wars all over the world yeah in days gone by a war correspondent was was not seen in a negative light it wasn't as though you were walking into a war zone with a big cross on your forehead was it no because I'm the I'm the biggest coward you know when the shooting starts I keep my I get my head down it war correspondent is is a sort of a considered risk factor not not one of the British correspondents I was interviewed the other day in good great Britain news and he said to me what makes you become a war correspondent I said to you well it's better than working okay and I also could get into these wars in those days you'd go in you know in Lebanon I'd arrive and I'd go down to Nakura which was a UN base and I knew the commander and I went in there so many times that when I towards the end I'd arrived he said hello he said how long are you here for I said I don't know he said anyway you're sleeping over there and then I'll ask he's asked to be taken to one of the units up there and then they also move around I actually spent a lot of my formative years in the Middle East I went into the invasion of Beirut with Eric Sharon's force I spent a lot of time with the Israelis I was I spent a week off the shores with the gunboat patrolling for infiltrators and that's that was my formative years and then in the ten year civil war I was in and out of there for ten years so but always with the Christian forces whereas the media tended to go with the Muslim forces so I was on the other side of the Green Line and that was really the most intense spirit of warfare that I've ever had although I already had been covering and it was still coming the Portuguese Wars Angola Mozambique and Portuguese Guinea which they they trusted me by the first after the first time and they allowed me to go in whereas they didn't really like the media but I was giving them good publicity in the sense that I was I wasn't kind to them but their war was being featured in in photographs and eventually I started with films and so it progresses and I and I moved from there to lots of wars all over Africa West Africa El Salvador parts of other parts of the Middle East and so on it's fascinating you did spend some time though in today it's Zimbabwe what was in Rhodesia yes and there's a couple of stories there so when we come back I'd like to dive into that because I have some connection to that as well this is what's involved my special guest is Alfinter author of a book taka taka bomb bomb a South African war correspondence story more with Al when we come back this is what's involved don't forget to subscribe and leave a review more next and we're back what's involved that is my special guest is Alfinter author of taka taka bomb bomb just before the break I mentioned what is now Zimbabwe in those days of Rhodesia you spent a fair amount of time there as well with Ian Smith's government yes a lot of time with the they actually having been in the Middle East they sort of took me under their wing because they were prepared which is not a good thing in terms in terms of the the political sentiment at the time because most of the media was against him yeah it is obvious as plain as day if you know that this tiny community of the white population the same size as the city of Bournemouth in England could not survive and you couldn't tell the releases you know listen you're fighting a losing cause yeah so but like they would allow me to go on ops with them and I went with the religion like infantry in the region African rifles and that is to me a hell of a war well that's what I wanted to get into because the RLI the light infantry were legendary yes in terms of what their capabilities were the salute Scouts yes I'm also absolute legends and and you know they were the guys that I think sort of started that that counterinsurgency guerrilla warfare type stuff but you've got some interesting stories there just pick one to share with us I'm not going to go because I want to spoil the book because there's some great stories in the book along with great photos of you in various places but this is closer to home and I think people can relate to that well you'd move around the country mainly in centenary centenary area opposite and none of the roads were car were paid in those days so that was a perpetual problem you took your chances and I was with a unit and we went into a fairly remote area into a military base and I was with a pal of mine Mike Michael night of the times of London and we ended up sleeping in the night there and the next morning about four o'clock in the morning we heard this huge explosion and nobody moved we waited for sunrise and what had happened was that the insurgents had obviously seen these two strange white guys in cibby clothes with a military unit going into the camp and they were going to give us a welcome when we lift and they laid a landmine but somehow or another they blew themselves up with a landmine and we had a huge spray of intestines across the thorn trees you'd be astonished how much intestines we have each of us it's not a picture I'd like in my head but sadly now I have one well you know this is the thing I suppose I've been extraordinarily lucky because I've been blown up twice I was actually going to say to you in all of these years have you been blown twice yeah I've been shocked that continually and then I when you're in some of these countries where the troops aren't that well trained if they aiming at you you feel quite comfortable yeah when you're standing next to the guy they're aiming no there's it used to be called what's it's spray and pray yes pull the trigger and hope you're gonna hit something so I got more seriously blown up when I was on the back of a rattle standing on a turret of a rattle in one of the ops way north of daisy I think it was yeah yeah and then I also got blown up partly through my own stupidity you know in Kormata when the South Africans hit a major and Golan base if they thought it was swabble and it wasn't very special courses in golden base and our unit I went in was dropped in with the Parabat unit Charlie company with Pumas and 100 men we took seven percent casualties two killed and five wounded and I was one of the guys because I blew my you know I got blown up there but there's the those sort of things you're best forgotten they happen you survive you move on now I need to ask you about this as well because I mean these days you hear a lot about it in my day because it was never really spoken about and this is PTSD post-traumatic stress syndrome yes you've been in walls repeatedly heads and have you suffered from PTSD do you suffer from it I'll come to that what why I'm near why I'm starting from scratches because PTSD is used far too often these days for simple things which is not people get laid off for PTSD which is rubbish PTSD is a very real affliction and I seem to I seem to have come through it very well because I've only only had it once about 10 years ago I'm living in London and I suddenly had this enormous envelop by a fear and a dread which I can't explain to you but I was going out with an American woman at the time and it hit me at three o'clock in the morning and I was and it is a very severe mental thing that I I was absolutely terrified and I found her and she she I told her listen I'm having a problem you got to talk to me and she talked to me till dawn mm-hmm and it happened it stayed like that for about eight or nine days every night I would phone her and she talked me and that is the basis of that is PTSD that's the real absolutely and I've since then fairly recently I've had one or two days like that and I sort of you know I can handle it now but it's just it's a state of mind that you've got no control over yeah yeah it's horrific it happens you fight or flight or and sometimes it's just absolutely the night is very dark and you are very alone I'm not married yeah I've got a wonderful woman who's a former career diplomat now but she you know we're together most of the time but she has a place I have mine and if I need to I'll call her in the morning in the night but I've never had to do that yet and I don't think you know I sort of get along yeah book is fantastic okay and I've tried my best to do this interview without diving into too much because you have to read it even if you go wall stories no there's a lot of human stories in and a lot of human interaction and humanity it's well worth reading when we come back we're gonna wrap up with Al and just find out where you can get the book from etc etc this is what's involved back in just a bit you're listening to what's involved with David Watts have you been to our website check it out www.what's involved.com and while you're there click on the coffee mug icon and buy David a cup of coffee he'll love it. We're back wrapping it up with my special guest Alfente, author of taka taka bomb bomb it's all about a South African wall correspondence story and like I said in the beginning I didn't even know we had wall correspondence of our very own in South Africa but but we do I was and I'm almost ashamed now that I've read this book I'll to admit to you that I had no idea that you were or are such a prolific author you've published around 60 books yes but you know this comes from the work that I do as a foreign correspondent because I've been working on and off for James I didn't work I wasn't employed them but for 40 years I've been going into various wars like I'm now as you said as you said I'm now into well into my mid 80s and I just come back two weeks ago from covering the war in the Central African Republic I was there it's still that I'm sorry but that is still mind-blowing that you're still out there when you're still working it's easy I'm working I worked at this time with a NATO commando force in the CAR they treated me like a grand old man and then last year October I was in the war in Mali and which is a pretty grim war and the West is not winning it the the Islamic forces are powerfully motivated they damn good let's put it that way and that was an insight so I I've got this is another book I'm finishing off now called Africa in the line of fire but it's going to be published overseas so we're not getting it here or will it come idea I'm not sure because I'm a little bit critical ah no it's because you touched on something interestingly and I'd love I'd love to to get your your impression there in terms of the Islamic factions and the war I believe it's a lot closer than we as that Africa would like to give it credit for and we all will be all sitting back in our laurels going yeah it's okay it happens out there it's the Yanks they deserve it I don't think that's entirely true because the most big situation yeah in spite of what Maputo says it's out of hand those those those in search of those guerrillas and all the mother big are absolutely brilliant for two reasons they are local people they know their own backyard they are Muslim the entire community in northern buzz the big is Muslim so the Russians went in there three or four years ago wagner group they arrived with these big heavy one twenty four one two four haven't turned off transport planes with their armored fighting vehicles and their helicopters were mi-17s and gunships and radio equipment and drones and the lock and they went into the north boy they were gonna knock these guys for a loop they've been promised gas oil concessions by the Maputo government hmm they lasted four months because they ignored the basic rule your intelligence comes from the local people and they were not local people and secondly they were pretty aggressive and nasty to what the local people yeah now it does concern me so there's another there's another book it might not be published here in terms of in terms of where we can get tuck a tuck a bomb bomb that is available at all good bookstores yeah it's out now and okay they I've actually flown out from England to launch it at various exclusive book outlets Johannesburg Victoria Cape Town okay so I snuck in under the wire here and I got to have a personal check with you I like that yeah and you know to me being I don't like the word walk across on it personally because I'm just an ordinary guy doing what I think I'd do best hmm and I I enjoy getting back three weeks ago to that war in the Central African Republic but I must tell you it's quite tough because they wouldn't let me go anywhere if I had to go and get I asked when I arrived I wanted to go into town so the commander said to me really I said yes I said you know I'm here I'm in Bangui South Africans fought a very big battle in Bangui not long ago and they lost a lot of guys he says well let me think about it see the next morning yet for armored infantry fighting vehicle there with a bodyguard of 12 men and they took me to town to have tea so having been told let me be told that you just do what we say and as a matter of fact at one stage we now gave it to 2019 the first time with it we were hassled by a group of rebels and they just had a ring form a ring around but as in Mali they also where they also put a heavy guard around me all the time I said them you're defeating the object their exercise I'm the only civilian dress here amongst a bunch of paratroopers and then the Mandos who are in combat gear and you eventually it's not going to take these guys very long to realize that this guy must be of some value so you should be our target so it's counterproductive but anyway I didn't argue you know what can you say you if you're going into a dangerous situation with these guys you can't ignore the demands yeah I just I totally agree with you because immediately you're gonna get marked as a high-value target and you're you're part of some claim to star an organization meantime you're there as a reporter is ancient you mentioned the Islamic groups yes so well organized their intelligence is absolutely spot-on I wanted to go over that out of Mali to Dakar when I told the commander he looked at me and he looked away and he looked at me again he says are you mad you're gonna be the only white man on that road how long do you think is good for them to find out which is it's understandable it's kind of sad though the other shared part is I'll let it wraps up our check for now before I let you go though one last question I mean this this just reading the book and talking to you I mean this is a life well-lived but what is next for Alfenta I'll be quite honest I don't know I'm supposed to go to northern Mozambique to finish the book that I'm Africa in the line of fire but I don't think so I actually think I've done my last war at 84 one of the things you lose is your balance and also your your had me be blown up I've lost the use of my left ear and your balance of your body comes from your ears yeah and so I am not as sharp as I was and I've got to accept that I wanted to go to you I wanted to go to Ukraine but Lin my partner has a hysterectomy every time I mention that and that's that you know since she won't let me go yeah I think you coins a bit a bit messy so so retirement you don't strike me as somebody who's gonna retire and sit next to the fire and not at all I've got another two books or three books that I want to do and one of them involves a relative from the ball who actually ended up killing a lot of British troops officers senior officers and she was she escaped from a concentration camp I think I think in and around South Africa there's still a lot of stories to be told oh yes wonderful stuff well there we go it wraps it up with my special guest alpha into the book is tuck a tuck a bomb bomb the South African war correspondent story get it now as I've said to before certain books you need to get in the paperback or hardcover edition purely because Kindle just doesn't do it justice this is one such book there's some amazing photos in there the stories are great it's available in most good bookstores it is it's obviously available online as well so go out and get it I'll thank you so much for taking the time and having a chat to us they I it's my pleasure and I appreciate your you know your approach and your it's an absolute pleasure so there we go wrapping it up to each and every one of you look after yourselves take care and thank you for listening thanks for listening to what's involved we hope this episode inspires you to find your passion and live your dream don't forget to rate review and share the podcast and to see what's happening what's going on and what's coming follow what's involved on Facebook and Twitter at what's involved thanks again for listening