Andie Brockelhurst — Internet marketing and where to start with your own online business

David Watts on Mix 93.8. - Thanks, 93.8, some legendary radio for you. On a Monday night, as we do each and every Monday, at this time, it is time for What's Involved. And I'm in for a treat tonight, 'cause I've got not one, but two ladies in studio with me. So let's say hello to both of the ladies. First and foremost, it's Velma Nzembela. Did I get that right, Falma? - Yes, good afternoon, David. - Hi, made it. And then also, Lucinda Musombuca. - You got it right. - Got that right, too. I'm on a roll this evening. Welcome, ladies, it's so good to have you here. They are both from, as you pull, Velma is the head of brand and communication. So let's start off having a little bit of a chat to you. I'm very excited to have you in here, and the fact that we get two ladies at this level that are in studio is brilliant, 'cause I'm a big fan, and we're gonna talk about that later on, in terms of transformation, what you guys are doing. But first and foremost, in a nutshell, just so that my listeners can know who they're speaking to. Tell us a little bit about Velma, and then how you ended up as head of communication. - So Velma is a brand custodian for Asher Paul. What I do there, Asher Paul, is to make sure that we build a strong brand, make sure that our brand is a living entity.

I develop brand positioning to make sure that it's really in the market, who we are, what we stand for, and what we do, and for whom we do it. And as part of my communication role, my responsibility is to make sure that I guard reputation, I build enough equity in the market for Asher Paul brand. - Okay, now let's get onto that a little bit, because it's not as though you guys are operating in a market where there's no competition. You're in a very, very competitive market. So your job is to literally elevate the brand and get it out there. And I mean, these days, it seems like every second day you look around, there's another insurance company offering you more, better, more of this, more of that. They don't always deliver though, and yet you guys have got a bit of a different reputation. And you do go back in time, when I was doing a little bit of research about Asher Paul and what it's all about, you started way back, like 1913. You started in this country, and it was a burial society of all things. I mean, even at that time, that was probably very progressive and not something that many people did. And subsequent to that, you've sort of been along that journey. We are talking to you because most recently, you've got a new brand campaign out.

And I saw the press release, I heard about it, and I thought, okay, very nice, lovely, okay. And then I actually got the opportunity to see that ad. It's a 90 second ad, I guess. Has it been released throughout the media now? Is it up? Is the rollout happening? - Yes, it's been out. It was launched on the 18th of March, officially. And it's been out. It's been on TV ever since then. - Oh, you can see who doesn't watch TV in this room anyway. But I got to see it. It is such a powerful advert, though. And the most amazing part of it is, you're all about serving. - Yes. - As you pull, about serving and service. - Yes, yes. - And this is what this ad sort of is all about. But tell us a little bit about it, because at the launch, it was a bit like a Hollywood movie launch that you did it. And then suddenly some of the guests were quite surprised. - Yes. And David, I think you've raised a few questions right now. And I just want to maybe answer your first one. You said something about a lot of competitors entering our space. The most interesting thing, though, is yes, that is true. And what we've seen when that happens is that your established brands would actually gravitate towards competing head-on with a smaller brand.

And what that happens, or with the challengers, and what happens is that they start moving, your established brands will start moving away from the leadership role to focus the authenticity of the brand. And what you often see is that some people start talking about the same thing. So competitors start focusing, or brands start focusing on affordability more than focus. So when you go out in the market and you look at the messaging of most of the brands, particularly in the insurance industry, is everyone's talking about affordability. Everyone's talking about how long it takes for us to pay the claim. And all of that is very crucial. All of that is very key. But what we fail to do is to communicate clearly in the market what we do as an organization, what we offer, and for who we do it. And that makes us different as Asher Paul. The strategy we took on this new brand advert that you're talking about is we've decided not to compete head-on. Because if you want to be a leader, and we see ourselves as leaders in the market we serve, and if you want to be seen as a leader, you need to stand out. We did not want to look like a wallpaper with all the other brands that are out in the market.

And so what we did, we had such a strategy of extending who we are. We needed to communicate who we are as an organization. And this new advert is just an extension of that. And it says we serve those who serve. - And the interesting definition there, and I'm gonna backtrack just a little bit as well. Because as you Paul, many years ago, was originally four members of the police service. - Yes. - And then I thought initially, I was like okay, yeah, we serve people, we look after those who serve, yeah. But you've just taken that and blown it wide open now. Because you are now literally defining what service is and what those who serve are. - Yes. And Asher Paul's story is one of such a remarkable progress. And it's a company that understands its roots and stay very true to its roots. But taking you back to 1913, yes, Asher Paul started as a burial society for the police force. We often refer to the story as the story of a hat. Where police would come together, put money into the hat, and support each other and each other's families when there were bereavements within the families. So in a sense, we are a story of a hat. And this practice was as a result of having no access to formal financial services structure by our market.

And we know that access to financial services is still a challenge to many South Africans for various reasons. And from that humble beginning of a hat, was born an organization, Asher Paul, that today's offers a wide range of products that are relevant to the needs of our clients at any point during their life stages. - And I think that's brilliant. And we're gonna get into that because your bouquet of products, what you offer is actually, and the great thing, one of the privileges I always have when I interview people is I get to do some research and find out a little bit more about the people and about the brain. And it is, I mean, in South Africa, we hear so much doom and gloom all the time. Ah, ah, ah, that's that and the next thing. And here you guys are and you're sticking to your service levels, your integrity is still high. And I think that is fantastic. And it speaks to that in this advert. If you haven't seen it, you gotta do it, okay? Suggestion number one is please put it on YouTube so that strange people like me can find it because it is brilliant. I mean, it's just, yeah, we gotta get into it a little bit. But before we do that, we're gonna do one or two other things. My guest in studio this evening, Head of Brain and Communications, Valma Zembele, and also Lucinda, which I'm gonna chat to Lucinda a little bit later on.

She is the Executive Sales Manager and they got a really cool program going at the moment, which was fascinating for me as well. It's all about their graduate program. We'll get to all of that and a whole lot more. It is What's Involved, Mix 93.8. - David Waters on Mix 93.8. - There's a Monday night, What's Involved, it is. And well, good news is there's a couple of things, a couple of bits of good news I got to share with you. One, not so good news. I was invited to the launch of a new bank today. And one of the joys of having diabetes is when you actually sort of forget what you're doing at the weekend. And instead of having your gin and tonic with sugar-free tonic, you have too much sugar. So I missed it, which was a bad thing. But the good thing is I've managed to get that all sorted out. So we are here tonight. I'm talking to you as your poultry of the ladies from Azupol as well. And then tonight, for the first night, we're gonna be going into our second hour of the show. And I'm gonna be talking to internet marketing wizard, online business, 'cause it's one of the things that I believe is gonna help us in South Africa. South Africa here, we call it a side hustle, is to get something up and running online.

So I'm gonna be chatting to Andy Brocklehurst a little later on. One of the top guys, he's based in the UK. Really looking forward to chatting to him as well. But right now, we are chatting to Velma Nzembele, who is the head of brand and communications at Azupol. We're talking a little bit about the story and how the company has grown, Velma. And we mentioned, it was just sort of as a burial society.

But now you've expanded. You've got bunches of things that you do. So let's, can I just jump in here because I've got many questions for Velma. But Lusanda or Zombuca, executive sales manager, let's find out a little bit about some of the products. I mean, you serve sort of people across the board and in all demographics. And I think that in itself is amazing because you get some companies that, if you earn below a certain amount, you're sort of, no, you're not gonna get anything. So talk to me about a little bit, just a broad overview of some of the products. - All right, so I think with our products, we think of ourselves as a one-stop shop. I mean, everything starting from funeral covers with our clients to their life covers. We do pre and post retirement as well. So while you're planning for your retirement and even after you have retired, we take care of that need as well. And then we also have a variety of investment products as well. I think just speaking to versatility and appealing to the market that we're dealing with. When it comes to our life cover, we obviously understand that you need to be versatile and you need to have different types of products. So with our life covers, as an example, we have underwritten products and non-underwritten products only because we know that with cultural differences, there are clients who would prefer to not go through the normal medical underwriting.

And because we understand that, we then decided that let's launch products that appeals to that market. So even if it's a non-underwritten life cover product, a client would be able to get that or your traditional underwritten product. - Fantastic. And then obviously one of the drives that you have and as part of the vision is speaking to young people. Because, and I'll tell you right now, I am one of those that is sitting here at this time in my life, kicking myself, because I didn't start out when I was young. When I'd just gotten out of school, just gotten the first job. You think about it and people talk to you about things like life insurance, et cetera, et cetera. And you go, but I'm 20, 21, I'm never, I'm immortal. This whole death thing's never gonna happen to me. Why do I need it? You know, RAs and retirement annuity, things like that. You also don't think that you're gonna do it, but then you get to this time of life and suddenly you're going, wow. So you do that and you also focus a lot on women, I'm assuming. - We do. - 'Cause I'm looking at two stunning ladies now who are doing this thing. So let's get back. We talked a little bit about that. Velma, if I can just switch back to you very quickly.

So tell us about this brand now that is Azupol. And you know, what are you doing with brand Azupol? - Well, it's actually a very interesting story. So if I can just backdate to 2013 when we launched our first brand commercial with Brahil Masekela, who was such an embodiment of savings himself. And he played such a pivotal role in the success of our brand as Azupol. And at the heart of that brand in 2013 was for us to really just venerate the public servants, those who serve. And that's when we actually introduced our new tagline, "Saving those who serve since 1913." And as you may know, as you know that we've had a lot of changes within the organization. And one of those changes is actually the loss of Brahil Masekela. And with that also our vision as a company has changed. We are a company that is growing. And as part of that, we needed to bring out another positioning into the market. And so what we did with this brand is, you know, when you speak to people who serve, the one thing that comes across is that they feel underserved. They feel unappreciated. They feel like when people talk about, for instance, the public servants, they talk about corruption and fraud and all the negative connotations that goes with being a public servant.

And what we wanted to do with this brand is really just to put them at the center

of our advert to make them the heroes of our story because they are. They are the reason we do what we do. They are the reason our company is growing. They are the reason we are successful as a brand. And what we wanted to do is extend that and celebrate and venerate the heroes that are amongst us every day. I think so often when you talk about the heroes and you start talking about your Nelson Mandela, and they are. And all the other big, big characters that played such big roles in our societies. But we feel, as Asher Paul, that heroes are amongst us. Heroes leaves with us. And we don't have to look so far and wide to know who the heroes are. And we just wanted to recognize them. So that's one. And part of what we wanted to do is, I think there is a misconception that Asher Paul is a brand. And because of our history with the police force, that Asher Paul is a brand for the police. And what we want to do with this is actually change that perception. Because we're not for the police. We are for every man and woman in South Africa who works hard to put bread on the table for their children. And so if you look at our brand, it actually celebrates the mother. We talk about the mother who raised seven children in the house built for three.

We talk about those at the petrol stations who ask 93, 94, or Dizzle. Every day, all day. And we talk about those who protect us. The police, the firefighters. We talk about the nurses, the teachers. And basically we're talking about every man and woman. It's actually, there's a part in our advert that also celebrates those who wake up every morning to catch taxis and trains. And what that tells you is that there is a sacrifice that comes with service. And what we wanted to do with this brand is just put them at the center of what we do and venerate them and make them the heroes of our story because they are. - But I think, and that is what is so important in what you guys are doing. And particularly with your whole service ethos and with this advert is, it is those people. And we spend so much time in this country bleating and whinging about corruption and politicians and the police are bad. This, that the next thing, that we don't take the time. And I think we've lost this. To actually celebrate the heroes that are all around us. That part of that ad where the guy's running to catch the train and it's still dark. And that happens. That's not something made up. It happens. - 100%. - You know, the person that serves you at a filling station, have you taken the time out to go, wow, what time did you start shift?

What time did you, you know, it goes the same for the members of the police service. Anybody that's in that service, the fire departments. And I think if we start looking for more good stories like this and celebrating just the good in our country. - 100%. - It's gonna change a whole lot of things because our country is not all bad. I think it's more, I would hesitate and I wouldn't hesitate to say it's 98% good. Yes, there's a few bad apples. But the majority of people when you meet and those are the people that this particular campaign talks to, it's your everyday people. - It's very interesting because we did research and it actually suggested that about 12% of South Africans work more than 60 hours a week. And that is actually above the labor law because it's about, it's less than that. And do we celebrate such excellence? Do we celebrate the sacrifice of service that they give? And so it's not all bad. It's not all about fraud and all of that. And what we did with this brand, which is very different from what everybody's doing, is we celebrated the real heroes. And to bring authenticity to what we did or this brand is we actually are cast members in the real professions of this roles that they're playing in our advert.

So the teacher is the actual teacher. And ness is an actual ness. And what we did, the firefighters, the actual firefighters. And what we did when we shot the advert is we sat with them just to hear their stories. And I can tell you most of them have a calling for what they do. They are so passionate about their work. They tell you the stories of the challenges, the joy that comes with their job. But what stood out is that they have a calling, they are passionate about it, and I think they deserve to be celebrated. - I mean, when we talk about that, and maybe we can talk about it a little more, but for right now though, just the fact that you used real people in real jobs, those are not actors. They're not trained, they are real people. - Yes. - I haven't heard of that before. So if not the first company to do that, you must be amongst the first. - We're probably the first. - You know, so- - I haven't heard of that either. And I think that's what brings authenticity to our brand. And I don't know if you know this. You know, for brands to say that clients are at the center of what we do, it's such a cliche. But if you think about it, we've actually won the CFI Service Awards for four years in a row.

Since 2015, until 2018, we've been winning that award. And I think that is testimony to what we do at Ashopo. In all the meetings, in everything we do, the customer is at the center of all our decisions. - And to me, it makes absolute sense. And to me, that's probably why, or one of the bigger reasons why your business is growing. We're gonna be back in chat some more because I now wanna find out about transformation and things like that. So we'll do that. It is what's involved, Mix 93.8. - David Watts on Mix 93.8. - It is a Monday night. What's involved as we do each and every Monday, as I said, the first time we're extending the show and it starts tonight. So we're gonna be running until 8 p.m. tonight. Right now, though, my guest in studio from Ashopo, we've got Velma Isambela, who is the head of branding communications, also Luz Sunda, Massambuca, executive sales manager. We're gonna talk to you a little bit more just before we wrap it up today. But Velma, I'm fascinated and I asked you the story often. I thought, you know what? I'm gonna ask you the question on air again. 'Cause in the advert, right towards the end, there's this monument. It looks like a square of granite. - A plinth. - A plinth.

- Yes. - There we go. That's the right word. And it's just got those who serve on it and the lady comes in. It is a brilliant ending. Is that a real thing? - It is a real thing. So that is a plinth that we've built particularly for this advert. And the story behind it is that, you know, one of the most recognizable way that the world venerates heroes is through a monument. So if you think of all your Nobel Prize winners, they all have monuments. All the famous people around the world, they have monuments. And actually the title of our ad is that there will be no monuments here. And what we're saying is that we haven't seen any monuments that honor your teachers, your nurses, your hardworking South Africans. And what we wanted to do, so basically what we're saying is that we want to build a monument for you. We want to build a monument for the police who dies in line of duty. We want to build monuments for the teachers with band bags looking after our children. We want to build monuments for the nurses who nurse us back to health. And we want to build monuments for those who goes beyond a call of duty. So what we're going to do, we're actually relaunching our social media from the 15th of April, which is next week, Monday.

And what we're going to do, we actually want to build digital monuments for our clients and not just for our clients. So basically what we're going to do is ask your normal South Africans to actually nominate their heroes. So nominate someone who you know, your teacher, your nurse, that you know goes beyond the call of duty. And what we want to do, the way that we want to honor them is actually put, we get a picture, we put a digital monument for them. We're busy finalizing microsite to house those monuments. But we actually going all out to build monuments because unless we do that, we can assure you there will be no monuments for your normal everyday working South Africans. - And those are in fact the heroes. You're absolutely correct. - 100%, yes. - That is brilliant. Okay, so let's talk about, we've talked about what as you Paul does. Are you guys, and these are two very topical questions at the moment. So let's speak to both of them. The first one, in terms of upliftment, Velma, how are you doing with upliftment? And then let's move on to a little bit of transformation because you guys have both got very, very senior positions in as you Paul, your CEO is also a lady, which I think is fantastic.

- 100%. - So is this a thing? Is that something that you are actively looking at? - Yes. Our CEO is an excellent black female, Bridget Mokwena. And I can tell you that transformation in the financial service sector has been such a contentious point of discussion since 1994. And at Asher Paul, we are a great example of a transformed company. So we are 81% black owned of which 38% of that is black women. Our staff compliment is 86% black of which 62% of those are women and 55% are black women. So our financial advisors as well, they are 98% black, 57% of those are black female. Our clients are 95% black of which 65% of those are black female. So there's a dominance of women and black women in particular and those cannot be ignored. So we are a completely transformed organization. - I think those are some really fantastic numbers that you're doing that. And even for the advisors in that, because if you have someone that's talking to you about your needs in terms of a funeral polyester, things like that, you want to talk to somebody who you feel comfortable talking to. So I think you've hit the nail on the head there. I think that's absolutely brilliant. Upliftment, ladies, we're in there, we're doing it, but you don't stop there.

Lucinda, I need to come back to you. We spoke briefly about some of your products and stuff, but you've also got a program that you run. In fact, there's a couple. You were gonna tell me a little bit about one of the subsidiaries, Stone, what was it? - Cornerstone. - Cornerstone. - Yeah. - So I don't know if you're gonna speak to that or if I should, but if you can speak to it, I'm happy with that. And then I want to find out about this graduate program that you're talking about. - All right, I think before we go to Cornerstone, maybe I should start by speaking on the accessibility of our products. We have a wide network of branches, countrywide. We have a fleet of mobile offices, and these are my personal favorites. So we have a big quantum as an example. It's an actual moving office where we go into remote areas, with certain clients, obviously, in really remote areas, like Umtate as an example. You'd find all the clients aren't able to travel 12 to 15 kilometers into town, into the offices that we have. So we then instead go to them. So we take these mobile offices, and somebody, a financial advisor, would be sitting inside it, and clients are able to come in and either take up new policies or even check on the existing policies as well.

- That is a fantastic idea. I mean, literally going into those areas, and I would imagine that you have a fair number of elderly as clients. - Exactly. - And you would need to be in touch with them. Brilliant. - We would. So we definitely catering to those clients. I mean, I think all in all, we have about 3,000 advisors nationally, all over South Africa, and then we also have the call centers as well. And just speaking about the elderly clients as well. So we have a subsidiary company that is 100% S/4 owned, called Cornerstone. So they cater specifically to your SaaSa clients. So any of the elderly clients who are receiving their SaaSa grants and are no longer employed. - Okay, so this is the grant market that we're talking about. - Exactly. So that's the grant market, and they would be able to purchase any S/4 policies and pay for them through their SaaSa grant. So this company concentrates specifically on them. And it, again, when we speak to, obviously, affordability is a big thing, in that space, and this always comes out one of the most competitive in terms of premium. - It's fantastic. You guys really have covered a lot of the bases in terms of your offering and in terms of what you're doing.

And I think that is so valuable, because a lot of people don't think about this, but our elderly, it's good to know that somebody's taking care of them, and in terms of funeral benefits, et cetera, et cetera. I think that's brilliant. But then you go from one side of the spectrum to the other side. So tell me about this graduate program. - Right, so I mean, I think all of us, all of our lives, have been told that education is the key to success. And I mean, a couple of years ago, the main issue with graduates was, I think, acquiring funds to complete a qualification. Fast forward to 10 years later, top of that list now is that you do have a large number of graduates finishing their qualification, but now they are still unemployed. So that's a real problem in South Africa, where we have unemployed graduates, irrespective of the type of qualification that they have. So as a solution to that problem, we've then teamed up with a company called Oma Mabesizwe Investments, and we are targeting graduates. So anybody who has a qualification would either be told that they're overqualified or don't have the necessary experience. So we will then equip them with all the tools that they need to become financial advisors through vigorous training provided by Ashipol.

We actually provide accommodation for them while they go through this training, provide food and everything that they need, then once they graduate through that program, they would become financial advisors who are able to do holistic financial planning. At the moment, it's called WDC, which is a woman distribution channel at the moment, and we're targeting specifically female graduates. But obviously, any other male graduates would be able to go into our many other sales channels as well. - Okay, you've sort of really taken care of, 'cause I know it's a problem. We actually had Professor Ari Katz from Boston City Campus in here a while ago, and he was saying as well that it is actually a problem. We've got so many people that are studying and they struggle their hearts out to actually get the qualification, and then once they've got it, no work. So you're offering that sort of bridging experience in order for them to now become financial advisors. - Exactly, and I mean, it's a win-win situation. What I'm particularly proud of is that the caliber of financial advisor that you would now get at ESOPOL is one that is, you know, it's definitely improved, and it's, you know, clients can be sure that they're dealing with credible financial advisors.

Some of the girls in the team, I mean, we have one who completed her LLB, you know, finished all her articles, so this is somebody that could stand in court and represent you, and she wasn't able to find employment. So that is the caliber of financial advisors we have in our team. And I think our clients can be sure that, you know, when they're getting financial advice from this type of caliber, they can be, you know, they can rest assured that they're getting the correct advice. - I think that is absolutely fantastic. All right, well, we're sort of fast running out of time here, so we've talked about what you guys do and how you do it. Well, in terms of a wrap-up, where do we see, what do you see ESOPOL doing? Where are we going?

- We think, and I think maybe in closing on the brand work that we did, or that we're doing, is that it is our belief that when you turn everyday people to eternal heroes who deserve a service experience equal to that which we give, you're able to demonstrate that it's a celebration of them and what they do. And our goal for this campaign is do more than just touch South Africans. What we are doing is actually inviting South Africans to be a part of this campaign in a meaningful and active way in changing how we see those who serve and allow us to open ourselves and extend more gratitude towards them. So in essence, we're saying, let's keep serving and let's venerate those who serve because those who serve communities deserve to be celebrated. - And I think that is, as you say, it's one of the cornerstones because if we start doing that, you as a company are doing that, we encourage South Africans to do that. I think the way forward is going to look a whole lot happier because I think that's what we all strive for. And the nice part about, in terms of those who serve, it's not a narrow band of people, because a mom is a person who I believe serves greatly. - 100%, we all serve in one way or the other.

- Yeah, whatever you're doing. I mean, you talk about that, the grandmothers, grandfathers, people who go out there every single day, the unsung heroes, as it were. So, okay, now, two sides of this coin. How are we going to do this? If people want to get hold of you guys, how are we going to do that? Are we going, is it website address? Is that the easiest? Or yeah, do you want to go for it? Cassandra, where would somebody get hold of Azepal? Just go into the website, is that a great place to go? - Yeah, so that's a great start. If you go into our website, you would be able to get in touch with us. In fact, clients don't need to use their own airtime to get in touch with us. If you go into the website, you'd be able to fill in your details, just your name, your number, and then you would have somebody call you back. - And this is, in terms of the graduate program as well, is it a similar thing? Can they also find details on the website? Or would they need to get hold of somebody else? - No, so I'm happy to actually give my email for the graduate program. - Fantastic. - And they could just email me directly, and yeah, just obviously with the relevant information like there is in me. - And then you'll be getting back to them.

- That's correct. - Ladies, thank you so much for taking the time out. I know you're both very, very busy, so I do appreciate it. And you had to get your way into mid-rand, which is always a challenge. Traffic should be a lot better on the way out tonight though. - So the email address, or not the email address, website address, it's asupol, A-S-U-P-O-L-dot-C-O-dot-Z-A. You got all the info on there. Ladies, I wish you all the best. I think it's a fantastic company. You guys are doing a fantastic job. And I'm looking forward to seeing what other innovations are gonna be coming to the fore. - Thank you David. - Thanks a million. - David Wallace on Mix 93.8.