Phakamisa Ndzamela — Author, financial journalist, scholar, and a bit of a Historian

And once again it is what's involved. So good to have you along with us. I've got a fascinating guest on right now and I actually when I saw like who he was and what he did I thought I need to speak to him. I really do. So here he is joining me on this episode. It is Pagamisa Nzamela. How are you? Greetings David to you the mix FM family and your listeners. I'm well. I'm well David trying to recover after a long process of working on this project but I'm fine. Wonderful stuff. Now the project we're talking about is an incredible book that you've recently released called Native Merchants, The Building of the Black Business Class in South Africa. Now off the top of my head I would have thought no. So I want to get into this book because I have found it absolutely fascinating. I've loved all of it. So let's start off right at the very beginning as I like to do with my guests. Tell me a little bit about Pagamisa. So my name is Pagamisa Nzamela. I am 36 years old. I stay in Cape Town with my family, my wife Machama and two pint-sized dictators Nolita who is eight years old and Vulingela who is three years old. So we've got a very small family. I come from the Eastern Cape Minam Tata, a small town called Amtata. My wife comes from the Limpopo so we're sitting right down on the tip of South Africa and the family is way way way far. As I've indicated I grew up in the former trans guy David with a very interesting culture at home. We were not elite certainly but I can never ever claim that I grew up under absolute poverty. I grew up in a house, mortars house with bricks and mortar. My mother was a teacher at a rural school in the trans style. She taught English second language. My father was a civil servant. He did administrative stuff in what was then called inland revenue which then morphed into SARS post 1994.

I was a culture of reading as we grew up. Every day my old man bought newspapers and without fail every time we got back from school he would have left his newspaper on the coffee table and me and my younger brother would feast on it. Of course my mother taught a bit of Shakespeare, taught a bit of William Wordsworth and so on. So we had a culture of reading in a modest home and that's how I grew up. So a normal kind of you know youth and going up and everything. What did you do when you finished school? Because you're a journalist aren't you? Did you study journalism? Correct, I'm a trained journalist by trade. I call it a trade. My friends always attack me and say no chief journalism is not a profession. You do not have a council like quantitative surveyors or lawyers or chartered accountants. So I'll stick to the term trade. It doesn't offend me. I'm a triculated on the foothills of at a school placed on the foothills of the Trocansburg. Catholic school called Maria Zell. One of those missionary education establishments that were started to try and improve the educational well-being of Black people whilst also co-opting them into Christianity. I triculated at Maria Zell and went to Vets University.

My father wanted me to be a lawyer so I registered for a BA Law at Vets University. I finished the BA undergrad and was supposed to go to law school for two years. I didn't want to do it David. So how did I escape? I got myself a scholarship and Thomson Reuters. I was very blessed and I'm still grateful to Thomson Reuters for funding a BA Honours or a postgraduate degree in journalism at Vets University. That is where I got introduced to journalism as a cup under the tutelage of people like Anton Haber, Joanne Richardson, Leslie Cowling, Franz Kruger and many others. Of course my sister was a journalist too but more on the back end she was a sub-editor. So when I was at Vets University doing my undergrad I had the privilege to read the Business Day back then, just the turn of the millennium, the privilege to read the FT Financial Times because Business Day back then was related to the FT, to the 50/50 JV. So I'd read the FT, I would read the Business Day, the Financial Mail, Mail-in-Guardia and many other papers and it did have an impact to an input in me pursuing journalism. Of course when I was at Vets I was part of a Mail-in-Guardian society and what we did back then we would go to the Mail-in-Guardian and we would ask them to give us a 50% discount on the paper and we will find them subscribers. I think at some point we had about 400 odd close to 500 odd Mail-in-Guardian subscribers at Vets University.

That also had an impact because you read people's stories and yeah you know reading, reading, reading channeled me to journalism, David and of course I chose a niche which was financial journalism thanks to another mentor of mine, Gugu Luri. When I got to Reuters I was asked to do political assignments at most and Gugu said listen dude we are not enough, there's not enough black financial journalists in this country, please just try the stock market and that's how it started David. You didn't choose the easiest journalistic path, I mean financial journalism is yeah I take my hat off to you but now did you write for these various newspapers and are you still doing that? All right so I wrote for Thomson Reuters, they gave me an internship because they had funded my honors and genders and so they gave me an internship in Johannesburg and they gave me an opportunity to go and do a graduate program in London and that's where they really taught me the basics of corporate action, writing about companies listed on a stock market, knowing the type of questions to ask when you cover in companies that are merging or you know taking each other out. That's what I ended up specializing in in finance journalism so I wrote for Thomson Reuters, I worked for MoneyWeb, I did a stint at ENCA, ETV but it was very short, I soon discovered that I belonged online or in print.

I spent almost five years at business day in financial mail and while at business day in financial meal I had the privilege to have a secondment to go and write for the Financial Times of London and that was 2015. So I'm no longer actively writing, David, I work for a corporate now, I work for an education company called Cura Holdings and you know part of our duty here is to try and make the country and the world better by educating the youth. So I am tasked with a fund called the Rudasichaba Foundation and the duties of the Rudasichaba Foundation are to educate a deserving learner who is Black as defined by the Black Economic Empowerment Act. So they've got to be strong academically, they've got to demonstrate financial need. So I go out to try and build partnerships so that corporates can donate to this fund and we can fund the tuition of learners. We currently have about 586 odd learners. Last year we had about 50 odd grade 12s, they all passed, 90% with university exemptions,

40% had average aid distinctions. So it's a very good modest effort. I am still linked to the media as part of living up to my name, Padamisa. I produce a community radio show once a month, month end in Gwazulu-Natal. It's called Radio Kwezi. We do a personal finance show that guides people in rural areas and townships of Gwazulu-Natal, you know and how they can make their wallet work for them. Yeah that's what I do, that's what I do David and my parent and my husband and I try and research. Those are all full-time jobs, all of them. We are turning to my special guest Padamisa Nzamela and we're going to get on to the book that has just been published called Native Merchants, The Building of the Black Business Class in South Africa. I'm going to find out why the book when we come back. This is what's involved and we're back with my special guest Padamisa Nzamela. Okay so I can kind of understand with your financial journalism background etc etc but why did you decide to write this book? So as you say David, if you are a journalist there's always a bigger ambition to write beyond the pages of your newspaper or of your website so everybody or many people in the newsroom will have an ambition of writing books. There's a gentleman called Patrick Boucher. What a great man. He used to be executive editor at business day. He was a page one editor when I was there and one evening we had a late deadline. I was writing a front page and we're trying to suck out all the information needed to make this front page great. Patrick comes to me he says, "Buddhi, you know, I think you could do a biography, a contemporary biography on a Black businessman, on Black economic empowerment." So he then introduced me to some people in the publishing industry and we explored that with a friend of mine, Lindo Tulu, who went around Johannesburg and across the country talking to Black economically empowered business people and professionals and as we interviewed them there was one uniform view, David, that we've got to go back. We cannot talk about Black economic empowerment or critique it without understanding why it came into the fore in the first place. So that triggered me.

I then started reading back, reading back, reading back, because people had suggested literature. I had to read people such as Colin Bundy, The Rise and Fall of the Black peasantry in South Africa. You know, I had to read people such as Andre Ordendal, who wrote for Gandhi Bantu

and the founders and many other authors, David. Now, there's this friend of mine, Tim Becker, who told me he's a lawyer. He's very driven and in anything that he does, he says, if you want to have an impact, identify the lacunae. So as I dug deep, he said, listen, I've been reading, he's an avid reader. I haven't seen anybody that is trying to do what you are doing. Just make sure that you research deeper. So he introduced me to the primary sourcing methodology in the archives. You know, he spent his time showing me how do you dig into documents? How do you page through old newspapers of the 19th century? That's the pretext. But I wrote this book, David, to close a gap in the market. I found it disappointing that, you know, we were never taught about the stories in Native merchants at a basic education level or even at a higher education level. And that anomaly continues today. However, I couldn't blame anybody except ourselves because it is not the duty of anybody to collect data. It is a duty of everybody. So I thought I'll make a modest contribution to society. It is not perfect, but I said I will start and make a modest contribution and I wrote Native merchants. You know what, I think it's the kind of book that everybody needs to read because when I came across it, I was like, wow, I didn't know that. And I mean, there is this popular theory that goes around that in terms of black business, the only successful ones are the tenderpreneurs, you know, and it's a very skewed viewpoint. And it's very wrong. I mean, just reading through your book, you know, and I understand as well Native merchants refers to people who are involved in business who are native to this country or to the continent. Now, what I want to do, though, is just chat a little bit about this and go, OK, so let's select some stories as we go through the book because the book is incredibly, I mean, I know I can see where you've sort of honed your craft.

You go as far back to miners in the pre-colonial era and you talk about the diamond fields. Let's just take one little snippet of information from there. Talk to me a little bit about that. Sure. So David, on mining, you know, there's a focus on the period of the 900s to 1300s. Right. 80, 80, 900 to 1300. I hope the listeners will understand those years. So after the 1300s or the 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, 1900s, and now we're in the 2000s. So on mining, I took some time researching a period called Middle Iron Age. This is the 900s to the 1300s. Now, in that period, we had natives in southern Africa mining gold in areas such as Mapungwube, mining iron ore, and smelting in Bruderstrom, close to what is today, harder be a sport than the vendor people, you know, were also mining in places such as Macado. They had praised mountains, they were called iron mountains of Chibupfe. You know, they would go dig for gold or copper, any precious metal. And it was exported to the Asian market way back, David, how the Indian Ocean so far now, this is the part between Tanzania and Mozambique. So it would move from north of Limpopo into the Indian Ocean. And that's how that export market work, you know. Now, how did they mine? Now, if you read the story about the Musina people in the book, Musina is now in what was called Messina in Limpopo. So the Musina people go to their mines, you know, they would mine with hammers and crowbars. You know, the crowbars were used for digging and were made out of a piece of iron, you know, inserted into a heavy stick. Now you'll ask yourself, you know, this is between 900 and 1300. Where did they get the iron to dig? Where did how did they make that crowbar?

They would smelt and they used what is similar to a pizza hut. Nowadays, David, that's what was used in as a smelting tool. So they would use this crowbar for digging, but they had a shaft too, you know. So how would they sink the shaft? Because the shaft is this thing that is tied by chains. It's like an elevator, it goes down underground and it goes up. How did they do that? You know, they made the bellows, you know, of the shaft, you know, using cowhide or the skins of an antelope. Now cowhide is very tough or antelope hide is very tough. They would cut it into strips, plate it and create very long cords of leather which could not break or would not break. They would then create a basket. Those baskets were made of grass, like tough grass. Now tie that leather into a basket and the people would go inside that basket, girls and boys, and the shaft would be sunk in. They mined copper underground, they used candles to light up and that's how it happened. And when the copper or the ore was brought in, they would break it up again and clean it up and yeah, smelt it as people do in mining today. And people would get their shares, some would take it to market internationally. It did not just happen in Limpopo, David, I must say. There's an area in Guazulunatal that was called Quaganda Ganda on the banks of Guinea River. They also had mining in the 7th and 11th century. So this is the 10 hundreds mostly. And they did a number of things that were similar to the iron ore and gold that was mined in Limpopo. Of course, there was a decline in Limpopo.

And academics have pointed or attributed that decline to some climate. I do indicate in the book that the people of Musina were sometimes not viewed in a good light because they had this pride as miners and people who were only involved in agriculture were not taken seriously. So there was an element of pride, but the attribution of the decline, geologists have said it was climatic. I then, I then, I wanted to move to Climon's. Yes, so I'll allow you, David, to ask the question. There's so much in this book and it's so fascinating. But we also, we are limited by the time that we can spend together. So when we come back, let's jump a little further ahead, because I want to talk about, you know, because we had literally in Africa, there were thriving economies and then Europeans came and for want of a better word stuffed it all up. So when we come back, let's talk a little bit more about that. This is what's involved. And my special guest is Pagamisa and Zamela back in just a bit. And we're back with my special guest, Pagamisa and Zamela, also of this fantastic book, Native Merchants, the Building of the Black Business Class in South Africa. So if we move on through history then, and we're going to have to gloss over some of it, because people must read the book. They have to read this book. But we had the time when the European settlers came in and, you know, a lot of stuff got changed. And, you know, suddenly, you know, people could do stuff. And that was mainly because we had cheap black labor. And the whole sort of concept there was keep the Native people ignorant and make sure you don't give them any sort of advantages or anything like that so that we've got cheap labor to continue working.

Even during those times though, and as we moved into the apartheid era, there were still Native merchants, let's call it that as the general sort of term, that were getting on with life and getting on with running a business. So bring us a little bit further forward in history and let's talk about some of these different kinds of merchants that we had. Because, you know, as I mentioned, I think, you know, the misconception is that, you know, black people didn't do any business. And, you know, the whites came along and did their thing. And then suddenly in 1994, we had a whole bunch of black businessmen. That's not true. So talk about some of the different classes of because you had various places. So and our gloss over it, David, so that I allow the listener to also read by themselves. So if you continue the path of mining, now, diamond mining, you might ask yourself, what were the koi people, you know, what were the Botswana, you know, everybody who they call the native of South Africa doing when people bought steamship tickets, you know, ship tickets from America, Australia, coming to Kimberley, you know, to dig diamonds. The reality is that in the early days, after 1867, most famous wine, everybody flocked, black and white, to the diggings in Kimberley. Back then, David, you could not distinguish between a black man and a white man because everybody was covered in soot.

You know, it was just dust all over, you know, and black people, black men, black women were allowed to dig diamonds. In September 1870, David, a koi woman of the Korana group sold a 61 carat diamond for 300 pounds, or its equivalent in oxen and wagon. Now, what happens to those people who are digging, the black people who are digging in Kimberley? A mob that could not compete, David. And as you say, that needed labor and only saw black people as labor, decided that they were going to pass certain laws that would prohibit black people from mining. So in 1875, you know, in 1874, you had about 129 black people with licenses in an area called Balfontaine. Those people lost their licenses in 1875, David. The rest is history, black people were kicked out of mining. You know, you come to Cape Town where I am, you know, there's a doctor whose story I think needs to be told more and more. His name is Abdullah Abdul Rahman. He was an activist. He started what was called the African People's Organization in 1902. You know, the APO had a building society, David, in Claremont, Cape Town. That building society operated in Cape Town, Port Elizabeth, Kimberley. Its shareholders were largely colored people, and it had a few European people. In 1935, David, the APO building society started by colored people, had about £106,000 in assets, and that money was used, you know, to finance houses and then build businesses. You know, they could raise capital. People were building hotels, David. You know, people were starting newspapers. People, you know, had transport businesses.

They moved from the creaking ox wagon. They started owning buses. You can call it, you know, in all sectors, financial services, newspapers, in hoteliering, retail, artisans. They did this. That is what I find so fascinating, and there's many, many stories in the book about many people, and that's why I'm talking to you, because this needs to be shared. People need to know about this, and it's people of our country and the rest of Africa, as far as I'm concerned. We're going to wrap it up, because I want to find out, you know, if we go back from history and we've now moved through forward in time, where are we now and where do you see us going? So we'll do that when we come back. This is what's involved. My special guest is Pagamisa Nzamela, who is the author of Native Merchants, the building of the Black business class in South Africa. Back in a bit. And we're back with Pagamisa Nzamela. So just before the break, we were talking about these different areas and aspects of business that Native people were involved in. And we move forward, and this is what I need to make this distinction of, because learning this, these people didn't just suddenly go away. They didn't just decide, oh, well, no, we'd rather prefer to be laborers. They were marginalized. But where do we stand now in terms of businesses? Because this idea of tenderpreneurs to me is inherently flawed.

You know, David, part of the lessons in the book, I didn't write a self-help book, but part of the glaring lessons in the book, I mentioned the APO, which was started by colored people in Cape Town, you know, and they had hundreds of thousands in pounds savings, you know, in the 1920s. Here's one lesson. I don't think there's a real shortage of capital. I might be understating it, but what we learn from the book is that if people come together and they put in a rand each or hundred rand or thousand rand, they will have the capital. And that is how the old natives did it. People have got to come together and say, we have stock fells instead of breaking money at the end of the year, you know, people save, you hear people having saved 200,000. And in December, there is a split amongst 10 people, each takes 20. And all that money is consumed in a few days. There are stock fells that invest, but I think those that are still consuming their hard-earned savings could learn from the native merchants of the past. Of course, history is not linear, David. Native merchants, as much as it talks about natives fighting against all odds, they also had a non-racial approach. There's past non-racialism. They did in certain instances, people like ZK Matthews, work with white people with the necessary skills in building a financial services firm. So we've got to work together in a non-racial manner. Black people are not going to do it by themselves. We're not saying they cannot do it by themselves. They do have the capability, but we're also building a country here, and we must espouse non-racialism. Now, here's the thing to the now. Black empowerment has created a lot of Black business people. The system is not perfect, but a lot of Black people, people like me, have been affirmed to work in places that could not have been imagined in the 19th century. Here's the trick for people who have started businesses.

If you look at all these empowerment companies, David, my worry, and I'm not going to take cheap potshots, if you were to go to their websites and ask yourself, where is the layer of the next management? Succession planning. So as much as the old native merchants worked against all odds, and they were punished by uncompetitive racial behavior and laws, they also had their faults, and succession planning was an issue there where businesses cannot go beyond the second generation or the first generation. I am worried that we might have that situation with Black economic empowerment companies, and it would be sad if those companies do not reach at least half a century or a century. It would take us a step back. Those are some of the lessons that I think I can share. Absolutely. It struck me whilst reading this book is that we actually got it right before, a good couple of years ago, but we got it right. We could all work together, and then everything got what happened happened. Unfortunately, we can try and rewrite the history books, but it's not going to change the facts. This is why I love doing what I do, because I keep on telling the people that ask me, I'm a storyteller. I love stories, I love listening to stories, and I love sharing stories. These stories of yours are the kind of stories that need to be told, so that we can get a better understanding. It's about communicating. I just think it's such a well-written book, Paganisa, and you need to go out and get it. You can get it at all good bookstores and online as well. The large online providers do have it in Kindle edition too, so if you don't like paper trail, you can buy a soft online version.

Listen, I think this should become mandatory reading, mandatory stuff that they teach in our schools as well, because it will give people a sense of pride of what our ancestors did and how they were capable. It's a fantastic story. Paganisa, before I let you go though, I mean now the book is out, and now you're obviously going to be having to do the rounds and promote the book, but what's next for Paganisa and Zamela?

You know, I continue to read David. I spend my evenings at home reading. I spend my discretionary spend on buying books that are running out of print. I need to give Native merchants some life, but I am already working on the next project. I won't mention it now, but I am already the reading heart, preparing for preparing a sibling of Native merchants. Wonderful. Well, I'm putting my name down right now to talk to you first about that, okay? Okay, perfect. So, just pin it to the diary. If I'm still around and broadcasting, we're going to do this thing. Appreciate it, David, and thank you so much for your bias on storytelling, especially local stories. May you continue to be blessed, David, for the work that you do at MixFM with your colleagues, and may you do what you've done for me to other authors, too. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Wonderful stuff, and it's my absolute pleasure, Paganisa. Thank you so much for taking the time out and chatting to us. I wish you all the very best with the book, and I look forward to hearing about your new projects as well. Thank you. Thanks, David. There we go. Wraps it up for this addition of what's involved my special guest there, Paganisa Nzamela, Native Merchants, The Building of the Black Business Class in South Africa, a book that is well worth a read. History that hasn't been taught us stuff we didn't know about.

You need to go out, you need to get it, and you need to read it. So, it wraps it up to each and every one of you. Look after yourselves, take care, and thank you for listening.