Lucy Rodrigues — Transformational Coach, Energy Healer

And it is yet another edition of What's Involved and my special guest, Lucy Rodriguez. Now, Lucy, you've been called a few things. The most, dare I say normal, I don't like to use that word, but the most common thing that you've been called is a transformational coach, however you say you don't like labels. So we're going to see if during the course of this interview, we can maybe come up with some labels. Welcome, Lucy, how are you doing? Thank you very much. I'm very well. Thank you. And yourself. Cannot complain. Always love to do what I do here. Lucy, let's start off a little bit with your background. Who is Lucy Rodriguez? Tell me. Well, I'm Pujigiz from origin. I was born in South Africa. I came from a very strong Roman Catholic family. And throughout my journey, then I discovered Reiki, Karuna and Shekinah and pretty much started my journey. Okay. Now let's talk about this journey because when we talk transformational coach now, we're not talking about a traditional life coach or a business coach or something. You got a little bit deeper than that and it's a bit more spiritual, isn't it? Yes. So pretty much if someone's looking for significant change in their life, obviously you have to cater for absolutely every single aspect of your being, which would be the mental, emotional, physical and spiritual self.

Okay. Now, talk to me about the development. I mean, you glossed over the Reiki and the Karuna Key, but those are sort of fundamentals. And when you talk about being brought up in a fairly religious family, when you got into Reiki, and for those of you who don't know, Reiki is essentially energy healing, am I correct? Yes, that's correct. So if you got into that, coming from this traditional family, were you frowned upon? Yes, initially. And I also had my judgment towards it at that stage, because obviously coming from religion, things like Reiki and that, it's very questionable. Yeah, it certainly is, but now Reiki deals just mainly with healing. Is that something that you concentrate on now, the energy healing aspect, or has your sort of spiritual side progressed at all? Are you doing different things now? Talk to me about that. Yes, that's why I'm very excited. And I actually teach my clients that I work on programmers, because in this spiritual path, you obviously have different layers, so you can call it like graduation levels. So the more work you put in, the more you shift your perspective, the more you focus on self, the more you put in all the tools and guidance that I offer, you naturally develop more and more.

So fundamentally, it was my Reiki and Karuna masters I achieved. And then I started with Shekhana. And from there, I started doing tarot readings, channeling, all sorts of things. So pretty much when I speak to people, if I speak to them on the phone, or even remotely, because I do all my work remote, I can connect with them and shift their energy immediately. Okay, now that's interesting, and it sounds like quite a statement to make. But let's just go back, I get the Karuna and I get the Reiki. What was the other one that you mentioned? Shekhana is just a very, very pure heightened, we can call it almost like an incredibly high level of energy. And you pretty much you know, going through the Reiki and the Karuna match, you start learning how to also work with different elements, connect more with nature. So it's just sort of a very pure energy level, which I started with, and taking into account that I pretty much continued the Reiki masters, Karuna masters and everything in a year. So the minute I got into it, I realized the beneficial aspects of it, and how good a person actually feels, as you go through the purging and the clearing and understanding of things in your life. Okay, but now let's move on a little bit, because you mentioned tarot, you mentioned channeling.

Now a lot of people, when they see transformational coach, and then they hear that you've done this, a lot of people are going to go, oh, hang on a second, this is a little too weird and hooty hooty and out there, has, is that the general sort of feeling these days or has us as a society, have we changed and are we more open to the spiritual side of things? Yes, thank goodness that people are open to it now, because a good 20 years ago, it was incredibly frowned upon. And I think the most evolution is that people are starting to realize there's something missing in their life. They're starting to realize they need change, but they don't know how to do it. And I always say to people, you know what, it's wonderful to use Google to read books and everything. Obviously, a lot of people know about the amazing book called The Secrets. The thing is, people don't know how to individually incorporate and what tools specifically work in their life. So going back to the tarot readings, like I said, I don't do labels. So I use various cards, I channel, I get insights and tools and guidance, and people are very open to it because they understand that something needs to change. Okay. All right, I get that, because again, if you talk tarot, a lot of people throw their hands up in the air, but basically it works on archetypes, doesn't it?

Yes. And the thing is, with any form of channeling, it's pretty much a tool. So tarot cards, angel cards, all the beautiful cards that I have, I have several decks. It pretty much shows me a story that I connect with my intuition and our channel specifically for them, what I'm seeing for them, what energy blocks are there, why things aren't moving for them. And then with the program, that's where the magic really happens. Because it's 12 weeks at a time, and I work closely with the individual. So whatever they're going through, we tackle one by one by one, identify where's it coming from? Is it from a self worth? Is it something that was passed down generations through the family ancestral line? And the more that we can connect the dots, and people identify it, it's so beautiful because it actually releases them from whatever blockages or mind frames or pattern and belief systems that they were holding onto when they identified that it no longer serves them. Okay, because I know for a fact, in terms of what I do, I'm a big fan of communication, communication processes, I'm an NLP master practitioner, and a lot of this stuff goes back, way, way back in its unconscious or subconscious programs that we are running.

Now are you saying that I could come to somebody like yourself and you would be able to identify that? Yes, a lot of it, if you look at it, for example, let's say identify it's your self worth and value systems. And you your whole life were told, for example, you would never amount to anything. So that actually went into such a deep level within your belief system, that you pretty much set yourself up for failure before you even tried because you had such a block and such a low self esteem. So what I do is identify it, and I help the person build up their self worth to believe in themselves again, to try new things, to face fear, and push through everything. And it's so beautiful, the transformation in people when they actually realize how important they really are. And I think that's a great point that you've just touched on there, is the fact that everybody, no matter who you are, no matter where you are, what your circumstances are, you have worth. A hundred percent. And you know, to me there's nothing more, sorry, there's nothing more rewarding than actually seeing people love themselves and feeling happy again and sort of just making better choices for themselves instead of just believing what was passed down.

Absolutely. Now, what are we going to do now, I'm going to take, we're going to take a bit of a break and when we come back, I want to find out, you mentioned the program. So when we come back, let's talk about what the program actually is. This is what's involved. Thank you. What's involved it is. And my special guest is Lucy Rodriguez, we'll be back in just a bit. And we're back. What's involved? We're getting a little esoteric on this show, but I like that. I like that. It's not just all about, you know, cold, hard facts and, you know, rational and logic. There is more to this life. So Lucy, before the break, we spoke about this program. So tell me, what is the program? Okay. So with the program, it's pretty much an introduction to the different options that I have. So it includes a weekly guidance reading, I do everything via WhatsApp or email. I also do clearing of energy. So any negativity that might be in your aura, your energy field around you, I also start going through and we start identifying, where are the blockages? Is it a subconscious? Is it a conscious? Is it on the spiritual level? Where exactly is this coming from? Do you identify with it? Yes. Fantastic. Do you wish to release it?

Great. And I work through the energy levels that I'm on to help them shift through, I give them weekly tools. So for example, if they're battling with something at work, or they want to look for a new job or they want to start a business, we start pretty much revamping and pushing towards the desired outcome for them. Okay, so it is a fairly structured program. Are there people that would come to you and you would feel that perhaps they're just not a good fit? Not really, because remember, everyone has got their own beautiful journey and everyone is in their own place. And the beautiful thing is, there is no ABC to the programs, I do not give a schedule or this is where we start. Every single thing is channeled and guided specifically for that person. And how have you have you found that to be? I mean, we spoke briefly about it, that a lot of people would poo poo this kind of esoteric stuff. Are you finding people not a problem? Nobody, nobody questions you and goes, which burner at the stake? No, no, no, 20 years ago, yes, at present, people are a lot more open to it, thank you. Well, that's good news, but we glossed over a lot of your journey, because often people that get into the spiritual work and the spiritual side of things have a journey and sometimes psychologically, it's referred to as the hero's journey, because you went, okay, you got into Reiki, etc., etc.

How did you get there though? What happened in your life? Well, in my life, I was working in corporate and a beautiful friend of mine Annette, she had gone to Reiki and she was doing the Reiki courses. And she said to me, look, here's a pamphlet, they've got an opening day, give it a try and see how you feel. So I said, look, I don't necessarily believe in this, I mean, you know, it's not in religion. And I had a lot of judgments at that stage towards it, but I went and as I got more and more involved with it, something inside me changed. I mean, you cannot explain energy unless you felt it. And when I felt it, it identified so deeply with my core, that before I knew it, I was going from level to level to level to level, I was, things are changing around me, my energy was changing, my outlook was changing. It was just such a beautiful feeling that it completely shifted that prior judgment aspect to a more open mind. Okay, the thing I find interesting, and when you talk now about your Reiki journey specifically is a lot of people go, no, nothing like that, it can't be and yet you would see those same people that would look at martial artists when they generate qi, that energy which is used in martial arts and combat, and they're quite happy with that.

So they practice things like qigong, which is also to get that movement, that energy flowing. And I don't know, I don't know why Reiki is something that has a stigma, or a little bit of a stigma, not so much these days, you're absolutely correct. I don't know if you've had a chance, I've been fortunate enough to see some research done on Reiki and using Kirlian photography, the people have actually taken photos of a Reiki practitioners hands, and you can definitely see something there. Oh yeah, it's 100%. So tarot reading, is that something you should have, were then drawn to afterwards? Yeah, so what happened is, I actually went to a spiritual shop in your crest in KZN, and I was looking around at crystals and all sorts of things, and I had this deck under my arm, and the owner said, "Are you going to pay for that?" And I'm like, "Oh no, no, I don't do readings." And she said to me, "Well, clearly you do." So I said, "Alright, I'll give it a go." And I got back, and I asked, "Okay, so how do I start this?" And I pretty much just started playing with the cards, and from there just further developed. It was pretty much a beautiful experience that was an add-on to all the beautiful things that we offer.

It's really interesting about your journey. Let's just dive a little deeper, because then you got into what some people would say is very, very, very, very sort of fringe kind of thing. When you talk about channeling, so what is channeling for people who may not be aware of it yet? Well, channeling is pretty much when you develop your intuition. So it's a direct portal, you know, I always say to people, whatever you believe in, because I get numerous peoples from different denominations and spiritual people and people that aren't sure what they are, and everyone is welcome because it's their journey. And I say, since, for example, I identify because of my religion with Source as God and the Universe, and it's pretty much connecting on a higher level where you are able to clearly hear and translate messages that people need to hear. Okay, it's something that's always sort of fascinated me, but I do agree with you that a person can develop their intuition. A lot of times I've heard it referred to as your inner tuition, as in getting guidance from within. Are you of the opinion that we already all have all the tools we need in order for us to evolve and sort out our problems? Yes, 100%, I always tell people, inside of you is a beautiful light.

It's almost like you just need to awaken to it. And with anything in life, I always tell people, you know, it's like when you're born, you don't go from learning to crawl to run, you crawl, you sit, you stand, you fall, you get up, you walk, and then you start running. It's pretty much the same. The more that you practice, the more that you put the work in, the easier it will become. And also when you are channeling, at the beginning it's almost like riddles, so you have to, you have to pretty much be responsible with that energy, so that you can translate the correct information. So it does take time and it does take daily work. So I tell people, you know, every morning wake up and give gratitude for everything in your life. Have that quiet time and you'll start realizing that in that silence is when you actually really start working on yourself. Lucy, you've touched on something that I want to get into a little bit deeper, and that's the whole aspect of gratitude. So when we come back, we're going to be chatting a little bit more about gratitude and how it could be fundamental to a whole lot of changes. This is what's involved. My special guest is Lucy Rodriguez. She's a transformational coach.

We'll be back in just a bit. And we're back with Lucy Rodriguez. It is what's involved. We're talking things spiritual and a little metaphysical on this particular edition of What's Involved. Just before the break, we talked about gratitude. And from my personal experience, I was at an incredibly low point in my life, a good few years ago. And I'm a big fan of The Secret. I don't believe that they gave all of the training and knowledge in it, but it's a great start and my life is falling apart. I was absolutely, I was a total mess. And I thought, okay, let's see if this stuff works. Let's put something into practice here. And literally, when I first started, I was like, I don't have anything to be grateful for. Life sucks. And then I had to force myself to sort of start off and do, I'm grateful that I woke up this morning. Okay. That's already put me ahead of a whole bunch of people. I'm grateful for my animals. I'm grateful that I have my health, et cetera, et cetera. And over time, and it becomes, it's change that happens so subtly that you don't realize that until you wake up one day and you go, actually, I'm feeling a hell of a lot better than I used to. Is this something that in terms of metaphysics, in terms of what you do, does it have an impact?

Definitely. It is so, so critical, especially now, as we know, the whole globe is being challenged. And it's really brought people down into a very heavy energy on a general basis. And I tell them, you know what? Be grateful that you woke up. Be grateful for the cup of coffee that you have. Be grateful that you have a roof over your head. Find something to be grateful for. I say, because that immediately puts your energy in a good, happy place. The minute you give gratitude, you will feel better immediately. That's how beautiful it is. And it's a good point that you make, because it does. There is a certain lightening of being. And for me, you know, in terms of the gratitude thing, it's one of those processes that crosses all sorts of religions and philosophies. There's a common thread that runs between them as well. And one of my mentors, when I was fortunate enough to be working with him, he turned around and he said to me, because the one day I was going, you don't understand how bad my life is. And he said to me, did you wake up this morning? I was like, yep. He said, did you sleep in a warm bed? Yeah. Were you able to have coffee? Could you have a bath or a shower? Could you go to a flushing toilet?

And I said, yeah. And he goes, well, then what the hell are you moaning for? Because you're way ahead of millions of people on this planet. That's very true. Very true. And it is really that simplistic. You know, the human conditioning is, human beings complicate things. Because when you connect with Source, with Divine, with God, with the Universe, the beautiful thing is that it's such pure, simple messages. Even the other day as an example, I decided to start raking the leaves and the wind came out of nowhere. And I started smiling because I got the message, what are you going to do now? The wind has picked up. So I said, I'm going to go in the same direction as the wind. I'm not going to resist the fact that something came up. I'm going to continue doing what I am doing right now, but I'm not going to go against it. I'm going to work with it. And that's a beautiful thing that I say to people, I tell people, do you not think that you're going to be having storms in your life? I guarantee you won't. Do you think that you won't have obstacles and it's going to be moonshine and lollipops? That's not reality. I tell them, you are going to be challenged. You're going to have storms. You're going to have things that you have to face that is so hard that you truly believe you cannot make it.

And I guarantee you are going to make it. And the beautiful thing is, it starts from that place as we discuss of gratitude of just being grateful for what you have. Another one of my great lessons was the whole concept of if you're going through hell, keep going. Yes. At the end of the day, things will change. I mean, at the time, at the moment that you're in, you may feel that it won't change, but things will change. Things do change. And there's another saying that energy flows where attention goes, which is great for the reiki side of it as well. But if you start concentrating more on the positive, the negative becomes less important, would you agree? Yes. And that's what I say to people. I say to them, please pay attention to where you're feeding energy. Because when I start working with people, I give them little assignments weekly. So I say, okay, Johan, look for this week, yes, I want you to write a list of all the things you love about yourself. And then I want you to write another list of all the things you'd like to work on about yourself. And we work through everything, and I say to them, please remember, if you are saying, I don't want hurt in my life. You are still feeding the energy as a negative.

Rather, use positive affirmations, and I give them examples and things that they resonate with. And I say, rather repeat a positive affirmation, I welcome love into my life. I love everybody, and everybody loves me. And through working like that, I teach them, be very, very aware of where you're feeding energy. Because if you do a vision board, you say, okay, I'm going to be positive, but then when you're alone at night, or in your own time, in your own mind, you are feeding negative thoughts. You are not going to achieve anything positive, because you're feeding negative. You talk about vision boards, and that was another part of my journey, is I went, okay, let's try this. Because vision boards are not too esoteric, it's sort of, you know, you keep positive images in your mind. And I had all sorts of things on my vision board. Fancy cars, and I mean, fancy houses, and holiday homes, and all of those things. And not one of them was working, wasn't working. And a friend of mine came around the one day, and she saw the vision board, and she said, why have you got this crap on your vision board? And I was like, what do you mean? You know, I want to be successful and stride the earth like a colossus, and she said that in this, you haven't taken into account anything like gratitude, happiness, love.

And the whole vision board that you've put up is, I will be happy when, so I will be happy when I get the big car, when I get the fancy house. And it took me losing all of that to realize what truly is important. 100%, and I always tell people, you know, you can have all of your heart's desires. The important thing that I teach people is, for example, if you feel that you are only worth a Ford Escort, but on your vision board you put a Lamborghini, but your value system is a Ford Escort, you will wonder why that Lamborghini is not coming to you. Because you need to work on yourself, because the minute your vision board, or your affirmations, or wherever you're feeling energy, matches up with that frequency, then it's a link. But you cannot be saying something, doing and feeling another thing. Everything has to be on par. Ah yes, congruency, that's the big part there. But you know, there was, when I think about this, and I think about journeys and people's journeys, and you know, I've often, you know, sort of, I don't know, how would I describe it? I'm very fascinated about all aspects of humanity, and existence, and spirituality, and often times you'll sit and think, I don't know about this, and yet when you see the results that some people have, it's absolutely phenomenal.

But now, one of the things that just came up as well for me is, in terms of, you know, you use the escort Lamborghini analogy, is that your internal saboteur, this fear of failure, and in some people, fear of success, it's called the imposter syndrome. Does this come from that kind of programming? It does. The thing is, you know, the journey of self, and working on yourself, is so, so important. The material things are important, but you know, for me, what I've taken out of this beautiful journey, is the person that I've become, you know, like you, I've been in places that was completely detrimental, and you know, I didn't have anyone sort of mentoring me or guiding me the way that I work with people. And I pretty much learnt, you have to love yourself, because no one's going to do it for you, only you. And how you think about yourself, and how you feel about yourself, is the most important lesson to me. Because if you cannot love and support yourself, especially through the hard times, it is going to be even more difficult for you. But if you go, fine. I'm not going to sway on you, but I call it an "S" storm. So, I tell them when the "S" storm comes, you can run, you can hide, you can try and resist it, it's still there.

Because it's a beautiful gift that the universe is trying to help you with, to either overcome fear, overcome prior consciousness that you carried through, overcome value systems, whatever it is. But you have to face it, and by facing the "S" storms, you do become stronger, and you become more vulnerable, and you become more comfortable with who you are. Okay. We're going to go into another break, and then when we come back, we're going to be wrapping it up with Lucy Rodriguez. But can I quote the Beatles now, because to me, one of the simplest ways of expressing the spiritual development is the fact that all you need is love. Love is all you need. Would you agree? I agree. I agree. And you know what? Love is the most fundamental thing, because love at the end of the day is something that is not only a blessing to you, it's a blessing to others naturally. Wonderful stuff. The next is Lucy Rodriguez. This is what's involved. We will be back in just a bit. And we're back with what's involved, my special guest, transformational coach and unlabelable person, that is Lucy Rodriguez. Lucy, if somebody's listening now, and as we start to wrap up, you know, how do people, number one, get hold of you?

Let's start there. Okay, everyone that comes to me is referred, so it's usually through someone that has had a reading or so on with me. And so they pretty much make contacts. And then I explained to them the various options. And then they decide where would they like to start, how much would they like to invest into themselves? Are they looking just for guidance? Or do they want to put the work in and work closely with program? So everything is by referral basis. Every morning, I give gratitude for everything in life. And now pretty much send out who even needs me will find me. All right. Well, I'm now referring a whole bunch of people to you. So do you have an email address they could contact you on? Yes. Would you like me to confirm it? Absolutely. Thank you very much. It's all in lower caps. It's Lucy LUCY, N for November, Alpha Lima, 49@gmail.com. So LucyNL49@gmail.com. And then they can tell you that David sent them. And could we be cheeky and say that anybody's listening to the show and wants to contact you, you'll do a bit of a deal for them? A hundred percent, I always do, and especially more so now, because I understand what people are going through. You know, I always do my best to accommodate people as far as I can, because I know the importance of it.

So a hundred percent. Fantastic stuff. One question, if you're being involved in the spiritual world as you are, have you any thoughts on coronavirus, on this pandemic that has struck the entire world? Because I've seen both sides of the argument, the scientific side and the spiritual side, the scientific side saying, you know, these things happen, there's a certain time frame in which they happen, they've happened before in our history. And there's others that are saying, hang on, this is a chance for us to stop and to slow down and to reassess. What are your feelings on it? A hundred percent, you know, I'm very well aware of what's out there. I just focus, as I say, you always go back to home after gratitude and every single day living as best as you can and doing the best that you can. So I tell people, you know what, it is a fact that's out there, but it is also an opportunity, you know, let's be honest, when South Africa was under level lockdown five, you could actually hear the silence, it was so profound, it was so peaceful, the birds were out, nature was out, nature had a chance to actually live its true identity instead of being conformed to what we call the concrete jungle.

So you could definitely feel the difference with level five, lockdown, level four, and then a huge shift the minute we got into level three. And some people could identify with a bigger message that the universe was trying to give and other people went into panic and they got stuck in the nothingness of the disaster. And you know, I pretty much say to people, yes, it's not easy financially for anyone, that is a given. But you just have to identify the fact that you were given that time of silence when people were forced to be home with their kids. Kids had to start doing online work, mothers and fathers had to learn how to work with the teachers. We got more involved with what our kids were doing, you know, and there were so many beautiful things that came out of it, yes, it was difficult because most of the kids were home for about 18 weeks. So I think the parents needed tequila shots as soon as the schools opened, you know, but we got to spend time with them. We got to, you know, the noise of this constant rush, everyone rushing all the time, all the time. It was an opportunity for people to just stop, as you said, just stop and realize what is important. Yeah, I agree, I mean, I'm sort of one of those weird people that I love, I love, I love people, I always say this, I love people, I just don't necessarily want to have to see them all the time, hence the radio thing.

So when we went into this level five lockdown, I thought I can do this, I don't need to go out and see the rest of the world, I've got my little bubble and I was, I was unpleasantly surprised by how much it did actually affect me and I went into a total wobble right at the beginning and it took a while, it took a while for me to get myself sorted out and, you know, and I'm not the only one, there's hundreds and thousands of people that have gone through that and a lot worse. I think about the people who haven't been able to make money earn a living, I think about people that, you know, are in such bad and dire circumstances. Sometimes you've got to turn around and wonder, you know, if there is this creative consciousness, this universal consciousness, why on earth would they give us so much suffering? Remember, that again is going to where a person's mental energy and perspective is. Because again, I'm going to just say the S-bomb because I do not wish to swear on radio, but sometimes S happens and if every time something happens in the world or in your life or around you, you're going to fold, you will never understand the importance of that. You know, I'm sure you're the same as myself and I'm sure millions of people out there, you become, you know, time molds you to the person that you become.

Those inverted brackets, hardships, it teaches you strength, facing your fears, it teaches you to be brave and there's such valuable lessons behind it. It just depends how you're looking at things, you know, a person's perspective is so important because you can have two people looking at a rotten apple. The one will go, it's a rotten apple, of course it is, look at it. It's no good. The other one will go, well, this side is still okay. We can still eat this side, cut it in half and share it. It's not all a waste, we can still work with it. That's the importance of where your mind is and how you look at things because if you can look at things and go, alright, I don't know how I'm going to get out of this. It feels like my whole world is collapsing, but I choose to be brave and I choose to do everything in my power and to hold onto faith as well and put the hard work in instead of complaining. Yeah, I go back to something that my mentor told me. One of the things that got repeated to me very often was what does fear stand for? And on the one hand, fear can stand for everything and run or it can stand for face everything and recover. And that to me was so, so on point. Yes, yes, also the one that I identified with is fear is future events appearing real.

So the more you fear it, the more you're actually feeding it. Yeah, okay. So I always tell people no matter what you're going through, you can either feed the fear or you can be brave, even if you don't know and believe that there will be a way out of it. It reminds me of the story of one of the American Indian tribes. It was either the Cherokee or the Sioux and the grandson was sitting chatting to the grandfather and he said, "Grandfather, can you tell me the difference between good and evil, fear and love?" And he said, "Yes, I can." He said, "Each of us have two wolves inside us and they're both fighting for dominance. You can think of it as a white wolf and a dark wolf. And they're locked in battle." And the grandson turned to his granddad and said, "But grandfather, which one wins?" And the grandfather looked at him and said, "Whichever one you feed, my son." And that's also true. You've got to choose which wolf to feed. Lucy, before I let you go, is there on your horizon, what's your next? Is there possibly a book or many books in the pipeline? Yes, I have, as we discussed previously, and I want to give a quick shout out to beautiful Robin Wheeler, who to me is one of the most magnificent authors being and absolutely everything.

And he actually inspired me to find my voice and find my brand for actually writing a book. So I have a written, I've got about three that I'm busy with. And I look forward to publishing that, obviously divine timing when everything is as it should be. But I'm pretty much sharing energy and sharing aspects of my life and at the same time motivating other people through whatever they're going through in their life. Brilliant stuff. Lucy Rodriguez, one last time, if we would like to get hold of you, what is that email address? Thank you very much. It's lower caps, Lucy, L-U-C-Y, N for November, L for Lima, 49@gmail.com, LucyNL49@gmail.com, you can get hold of Lucy, have a chat too, see if she can help you. Lucy, thank you for taking the time out and having a chat to me. It's been absolutely fantastic chatting to you. And I'd love to hear from you again when those books are published. Thank you so much, I really, really value your time and thank you for this wonderful opportunity. No worries, there we go. My special guest, Lucy Rodriguez, give her a shot, fascinating, fascinating lady. She is indeed. This is what's involved. One more thing from me, thank you for listening.