Kabelo Teme — Office Of The Credit Ombud, Money Smart Week

And once more, it is what's involved. It's so good to have you along with us, a special guest today. And well, we're going to find out exactly a little bit about her and about why she's a special guest and what she does in just a little while. But firstly, let me introduce you to Cabello Temme. And Cabello is the communications liaison for the credit ombud. And it's as I said to her before we actually started doing this. I said, it sounds very scary, but hello, Cabello and welcome. Good to have you along with us. Hi, David, and thank you so much for welcoming me and hello to your listeners as well. It's fantastic to have you along with us now. Let's break the reason why you're here. And then we're going to get into a little bit more about that as well. We've got something called Money Savvy or Money Smart Week, rather, coming up in I think it launches on the 22nd of this month. If I'm not mistaken. That's correct. Yeah, and it runs for a whole week. We're going to be talking about that in just a little bit. But first and foremost, give me a little bit of an idea of Cabello and how did you become the communications liaison at the credit ombud? Because I don't know, maybe it's just that word, but it kind of seems like you've got to be a bit, you know, it's a scary place to work. Put my mind at ease.

Tell me about that. Well, David, firstly, Cabello is from the West end, actually. I grew up in in Gajiso. And for me to have become a communications liaison at the credit ombud, I first started working at the credit ombud office in 2009. I remember and I was hired firstly as a receptionist. So it's really about all hard work that I put in for me to eventually become the communications liaison. And my job, what it entails mostly is the PR part of the what I do is is to actually say communicate between consumers and the credit ombud is to take the message of the credit ombud to the consumers, to stakeholders. In fact, I don't want to just limit it to just consumers, but also to stakeholders to say that this is what the credit ombud is about. And this is what we are doing. So my job, really, what it entails is literally just talking a whole lot. That's a bit like my job, then fantastic. But I think I think you talk a lot with with a very focused purpose as well. So tell me what what is the credit ombud? What does it do? Why is it there? OK, to put it simply, the office of the credit ombud revolves and resolves complaints from consumers and businesses that are negatively impacted by credit information, credit bureau information.

Or when a consumer has a dispute against a credit provider. So it's mostly non-bank queries that we deal with because the bank queries are handled by the banking ombudsman. But we deal with your non-bank credit agreement disputes, as well as your credit information disputes. So if at all you find that you have been unfairly listed at the credit bureau, we are able to then intervene as a credit ombud. Should you not get your matter resolved at the credit bureau? Or if at all it happens that you've already locked your complaint with the credit provider as well and you are unable to get a resolution, we are able to intervene as a credit ombud and say we are here. We will look into your matter. We have qualified attorneys to do the service and we offer our services for free to the public. OK, because and this is one of the reasons I wanted to get a little bit clear on this, because I've experienced. Shall we be let's be delicate and call it reckless credit in terms of people that have worked with me before and myself. And it landed me up in some very, very big trouble because, you know, everybody a good few years ago, this was but they were handing out credit cards like sweets. And every time somebody said, do you want one?

I went, OK, why not, you know, have one, have another one, have this one. And I ended up in a lot of trouble. And my staff have also ended up in trouble like that as well, particularly with some retailers where they were given silly amounts of credit. And it wasn't explained to them properly that they need to pay back X amount per month. And the next thing they wanting to send people in to take their furniture and all sorts of things. Is that the kind of thing you deal with? We definitely deal with that, yes, you correct David. Because we find that and I like the fact that you mentioned reckless lending, because. The regulations, yes, have changed in that you you can't. There's a criteria that you need to meet prior to you getting credit. So what we want is the message that we actually take into the consumer as well is saying that you need to also take responsibility of your own finances, because before the credit provider knows about your finances and your your financial state, it is you who knows exactly what is going on when it comes to your finances. So you find that if before you even go to the credit provider, before you even decide that, you know what, I'm going to take on that credit, you need to sit down with yourself and be honest with yourself and actually draw up a proper budget, drop a budget that says, OK, this is my these this is my income and these are my expenses.

And with my expenses, will I be able to afford an installment of five hundred grand, for example, per month for a certain period of months? And if you do that exercise with each and every single financial decision that you make, especially when it comes to applying for credit, then you will be able to avoid reckless credit. You will be able to avoid being in over indebted, because that's what you're trying to avoid here. We are trying to say to the consumer, even though you need credit, sometimes you need to be honest with yourself and say, I need to make sacrifices first before I can achieve whatever it is that I want to achieve. So when it comes to reckless lending, really, yes, the credit provider has got the regulations that are put in place about reckless lending where they need to do an affordability assessment. They need to actually take into consideration the fact that if I give this consumer credit, will they be able to put food on the table? Because that is more than more than anything, I think, even with Covid-19, that that is shown to be the most important thing for consumers. That even if I give this person credit, will they be able to to take care of their basic needs?

So as a consumer, you have the responsibility and the credit provider as well has got that responsibility to say that I need to make sure that this consumer does not become over indebted. You know, and it's a challenge because I mean, in today's world, we're being sold at the whole time and we're being sold this this sort of bill of goods about instant gratification, you know, get the brand new shiny and fit whatever you want to in over there. You know, buy now, pay later. And as a result, and maybe you can help me out, but I get the distinct impression that we have a lot of debt problem in South Africa and we don't have a very good savings problem. Am I correct in saying that? You are absolutely correct, because we I think that if you were to ask how many people actually save, it may be like having a savings account on a monthly basis. It may be just doing investments. You'd be surprised at how many people actually do not save in South Africa. But we are so quick to go and get credit because I want that car. I want that bigger house. I want to have the beautiful and gorgeous clothes. And as I walk out of my house, people, I mean, I want the paparazzi to look at me because that and it's very unhealthy.

We have a very unhealthy relationship with finances. We like you said, it is all about instant gratification. And that is the thing is with credit. It's meant to do that. Yes, you get you get something now because you can afford it right now and you pay for it in installment. So it is getting it now and paying for it later. Which is absolutely wonderful. I mean, for instance, we can't buy a car in cash. I mean, if at all you have to do that, then you will have to save for years. And sometimes then if really you have that discipline, then do that. And something like big purchases like a house where you can't purchase then in cash as well and you have to probably get that credit. So what we are saying is that as a credit over the message that we are actually bringing to consumers is rather spend rather use credit for the big buys, for that big car, for that, for the house, but not for simple things like your daily use, especially when it comes to consumables like food. If you can afford if you can avoid to buy food or consumables in credit, then rather to not do do that. So what what we are saying is that rather than make wise credit decisions. Absolutely. When we come back, I want to tell you a story about about something that happened to me many years ago, and it stuck with me right up until today.

We'll talk more about that in just a little bit. This is what's involved. My special guest is Cabello Timme, and she's a communication liaison at the credit. Ombud, we're getting into the whole concept of Money Smart Week, which is coming up between the 22nd and the 28th of March. We'll be back with you in just a bit. And we're back. It is what's involved with my special guest, Cabello Timme from the credit. Ombud, she is the communications liaison there. OK, so just before the break, I said I'd tell you about a very interesting story when I had just and we're talking many, many, many years ago, many years ago before things like I don't know, I think we still used to do our maths on an abacus. But one of the things that I did, in fact, in my first jobs was I worked at the bank and I was a savings savings clerk there. And to give you an idea of how far this goes back, people used to still have savings books. And I was there one day and I saw this elderly gentleman and he really didn't look terribly well and I said to him, just come to the front. Let me see if I can help you. And he came to the front and he was he was in those days. He wanted to deposit 50 rand. And I looked at this old guy and I thought, how can you possibly want to, you know, deposit 50 rand?

Because it doesn't look like you, you know, so we got chatting and then I saw the balance that he had in his savings book. And this man had been saving that money for 20, 30 years. Started working at a company called Consul. And that's where he'd been. And that is what he'd been doing. He'd been saving. He never, ever look, it's probably an extreme sort of example. But man, I love when I saw the fact that he'd been doing this and it was so that he could look after his family and retire and live a decent life. It's one of those things that has stuck with me ever since then. We don't see many of those stories these days, though. No, we definitely don't, David. I think that each time a person speaks about saving, we are thinking that you are supposed to save a thousand rand per month. It has to be like a good, big amount. But it is really the small, the little bit and pieces that make a huge difference at the end of the day. I mean, I once said that if I instead of buying because I've got a very sweet tooth, yes. OK, so instead of buying whatever I need to buy, like, for instance, of buying that cake that I love so much, I take that money and I put it in a savings account instead. I mean, I killed two birds with one stone, David.

Number one, I get to get rid of fat from consuming all of this sugar and I get to actually save it may be just a small amount like 20 rand. I mean, when you look at your your daily spending, right, you look at the little things that you do, because that's well, that's where the small the small habits are the ones that make a huge difference because you look at the day and then you like thinking, OK, did I most of us probably will will say I get takeaways for for lunch at work and I will then after work say I'm too tired to cook. So I'm going to get takeaways. And how much did you actually spend on that day? Only on takeaways instead of actually just making time to make food at home and saving that money and putting it away. So it is the small sacrifices that we make daily that make a huge difference. You don't even have to say that you want to do it on a monthly basis or on a weekly basis, it's the small things really that matter. I mean, imagine if he had not saved up that 50 rand in in all those years. I mean, he could have also been one of those that say I'm frustrated in my old age because I don't have money. I did not make wise money decisions, but he did that and it made a huge difference.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I posted something on Facebook the other day, which was said mainly in jest, but it was it was it was a little uncomfortable because it was fairly close to the truth. I said, I've now worked out my finances and I can officially retire, I think, at the age of 98 or something and live comfortably for 20 minutes. And that's the problem. And it's a problem that so many people have. And this is where Money Smart Week comes in. So talk to me a little bit about Money Smart Week, please, Cabela. What is that all about? Well, Money Smart Week really is about creating a Money Smart South Africa. That is saying that every South African should be wise in when it comes to money. It is saying to a South African that when you consider spending your money, you need to think first, because I think that we don't do that. We we are very impulsive when it comes to saving. I earlier on said that we have a very bad relationship with money. And that means it's unhealthy in that we just spend without thinking. So Money Smart South Africa comes to Money Smart Week. We are saying that to South Africans come and log on to the website and view videos or events of people who are in the financial industry, in the credit industry that are giving you information about your finances and how to best navigate when it comes to your finances so that you don't find yourself in a situation tomorrow where you are over indebted or you or you you have been a victim of fraud.

There are many things that that we will be teaching in that week that consumers and South Africans can take from that. And what I love about the events is that they will continue to be hosted on that on that on the website so you don't have to mention that. Just watch the one event and it's over. You can go back and watch it over and over and over again so that you can build basically your finances and, as I said, to also build a Money Smart South Africa. Which I think is absolutely wonderful. Now, Kabela, if I understand it correctly, Money Smart Week, it's not something that, you know, people are going to have to pay for anything, a lot of people I know and I've been fortunate enough to be involved in one of those discussions that that were recorded. If you if you watch any of it, it's all about money savvy kids, along with a program that is run for teachers called Zebuza.net. I'm the uncomfortable one in the chair asking the questions because I can do I can do this talking to people, but camera things are scary. But I know that we would just ask if we do it. And we said, absolutely, we will, because we feel like giving back. Is that the general theme behind this, is that people like yourselves have gone, OK, let's let us give some input at this particular time.

Definitely. I mean, we are actually encouraging financial houses or if all you have some information to give to consumers. We are saying come and become a participant in this Money Smart Week. We are saying that come and give the advice that consumers would would not ask for, but you know that they need. Because sometimes it is finances are very intimidating. And even though they affect us all, but they can be very, very intimidating. And sometimes you get scared to ask certain questions like, for instance, with the event that we are running with with the Ombudsman for Banking Services, we are actually taking the consumer through the process of going to apply for credit, because I think that we think it's just about walking into a credit provider and then signing an agreement. And then that's it. But there are many things that you need to consider from the time that you actually make the decision that I want to go and get that credit and to the very end where you now say, wait a minute, I have a bit of a problem with the agreement that I've entered into. What can I do? Where can I go? So these are the things that you get from Money Smart Week. You've got these participants who are saying that we are here to teach.

We are here to give back. If we have questions, just ask. Which again, I think is fantastic because I know that also a good few years ago, because of my little credit card thing, and I was literally robbing from Peter to pay Paul and I was trying to build a business at that time, I ended up in a load of trouble and I thought I was the only person in the world. I thought I was absolutely useless because I'd done this. How on earth did I get here? Because it doesn't happen quickly that you get yourself into this horrible, horrible dead spiral. But when it happens, you know, as you go, it gets worse and worse. And if I'd had somebody to talk to and somebody to give me some advice and not being worried about it, you know, we are humans. We make mistakes. And just because somebody is living in a fancy house and driving a fancy car does not mean that they are financially stable. Definitely. And, you know, I think that it actually should start from the time that from from the kids, we need to teach from the time that kids start getting money in primary school and simple primary school that we need to teach them about money. We need to teach them about how to handle money and how to actually save up, because the moment that you get taught about these things when you're young, I think that, I mean, I when I was born, I was born now back in the 80s and I don't remember my mom sitting me down and saying that now that you work at the talk shop and I was in primary school and and when I started working at the talk shop, I'm thinking, look, it's more donuts for me, you know, and instead of having that that that talk, my mom having that talk with me and saying that now that you are getting this money, this is what you can do for yourself to ensure that you've got money tomorrow.

I just went and spent the moment I got more money, I just spent it. And that is another problem that we do. You get a promotion and then you get more money. The moment you do that, David, the first thing that you think of is, oh, now I can spend more instead of saying now I can save more. We have this thing that, no, the more money we get, the more we can splurge and the more we can go out and live the bag of the fanciest life that we possibly can. And that is where the problem lies. When it comes to money, it's about discipline. When it comes to money, it's about making sacrifices. Absolutely. We are talking the same language here, Cabelo. This is what's involved. My special guest is Cabelo Teme and she's the communications liaison for the credit ombud. We'll be back with more in just a bit. And we're back with Cabelo Teme and we are talking about Money Smart Week. Once again, it runs from the 22nd to the 28th of March. There is a website. We'll give you those details in just a bit. And listen, I think it's absolutely imperative and vital that we do things like this because, you know, you're right and we said it right in the beginning. We do not have a culture of saving in this country.

And it's all about a lot of the times. It's all about the image and about looking good and wearing the clothes and the shoes, et cetera, et cetera. One thing that we certainly learned, though, Cabelo, during the Covid hard lockdown is how much we can actually do without and still survive because, yeah, you know, there's nothing nicer than being able to go out and get takeaways right up until you can't and right up until the money that you thought you had, you don't have anymore. And we got very creative and we did some fantastic things and cooked at home and we cooked in bulk. We always had, you know, we never went hungry. We didn't live the high life by any stretch of the imagination. But, you know, now suddenly, if the money starts coming in again, you need to think to yourself, you know, look, we managed to do it this way. You know, and look how much money we were saving because especially those daily things, you don't think about it. But you go and buy a cup of coffee every morning on the way to work. Add that up, add that up and see how much it comes to. Exactly, exactly. I mean, David, like I mentioned earlier, it's those daily habits that we need to actually consider and think about the moment that you start saying, but wait a minute, I'm not going to buy that coffee, I'm going to go and buy my son and make sure that a big coffee at home and and the money that I'm spending for this coffee, I'm going to start saving, have a piggy bank, if really.

I mean, we grew up with piggy bank banks where each time you got a coin, you just put it in your piggy bank. If at all you feel that there's a small change, rather do that. But it will make a huge difference because at the end of the month, add all of that money up and see how much you actually have and in the moment that you start doing that, you will notice that actually, I don't need this lavish lifestyle. Yes, if you have the money and you want to do that and you want to spend as much as you want, do that. But in moderation, everything in moderation should be done in moderation. And the moment that you start living a life like that, you will find even contentment because I think that it's deeper than just spending money. It's an emotional and the moment with money and with with items and material things, but like you said, with Covid, you had to live without those things. Because where would you go with that fancy dress and with those fancy clothes and all of that? You would you were home and you were you were forced to live in at home with probably a reduced salary even and then you managed, you actually survived. So the moment that you start thinking like that, that's when you become smart with money, that's where you become very savvy with money to the point where even when you have more, you are able to spend in moderation and save.

And at the end of the day, who knows, even be able to give to others who do not have. Which is fantastic. And that's the thing is, you know, if you can get to a stage where your money works for you as opposed to working for your money, I think that's that's where we want to go. Kabela, can we touch on the whole concept? Because I think this is one of the things that took me a very long time to get my head around it and I still don't consider myself a pro. But budgeting, how important is budgeting? Because, you know, it's so easy to get I don't need I know how much money I get. I know how much money I spend. I don't need to do a budget. But surely that is where we need to start. Definitely. You know what, David? I won't lie because there was a moment that I had stopped budgeting and I felt like I was all over the place and I was like, what am I doing? And the moment I actually sat down and had a discussion because that's what I call it. I have a discussion with my money and I took my bank statement because I feel like you can't have you can't say you budgeting without your bank statement. You are able to see exactly what you're spending on. So then I sat down and I actually did my budget.

I was so happy to see that. Oh, wait a minute. I can actually save on that because sometimes when you don't look at just bank statement, you find that and that's where as well fraud, you can easily become a victim of fraud to the point where you don't even notice that you're a victim of fraud because when you when you get your bank statement, you're able to see exactly what gets off. I mean, I think that when we all have our we all have bank accounts, but sometimes when you ask the person exactly how much are you are your bank charges, you're like, actually, I don't know because we just spend we don't spend time with our money. It is very important to budget. Yes, it is not just enough to know how much your income is and that you can actually because I think what we do when we say we are budgeting, we like thinking, OK, I've got debit orders, I've got this debit order and this debit order as long as that one that all of that is like done. Then I can start spending because we have that mentality that as long as those things are taken care of, then the rest of the money is for me to spend. But the moment that you start budgeting, you're able to plan, you are able to actually have a vision for yourself and actually say, wait a minute.

But with this money, I can actually achieve whatever I need to achieve. And it makes your life so much easier because then you can see the progress that you're making even in life, because in life for us to progress, whether we like it or not, David, it's all about money. If you want that house, that dream house that you've always had, if you do not budget, how will you know how much you need to spend or to save for you to actually eventually get to that dream house of yours? So budgeting is for me, it's like a map. It shows you exactly where you are and where what you need to do to get to where you are going. So you need to budget and make it a habit, a monthly habit that you know what, I am going to budget each and every single month so that you are so in tune with your finances that even when you see one rent being deducted from your bank, from your bank statement, you question and said, what is this? What's going on? I mean, there was a specific bank about two weeks ago, if I'm not mistaken, that on that weekend they were doing double debits. And some people actually did not notice this until after they got a message from the bank to say that there were double debits going off and we have we have actually refunded all of that money and you will not be charged any bank charges.

Now imagine if you the bank did not notice this and you just went on and after a while then you realize that, wait a minute, but there were double debits on the specific week, it affects you, your finances affect you and nobody else. And only you can tell exactly what's going on on your finances. But if you don't want to do that, then somebody else will definitely do that for you. Yeah. Well, another thing that happened and also during during the covid period, I mean, my mom, my mom is almost 80 years old now and she has a problem getting around. My sister is in a wheelchair. So I live far away from them. So I couldn't get to them when the hard lockdown was happening. But they'd gotten some people that they knew that said, no, no, we'll we'll go and do shopping for you, you know, you just give us the card or we'll go, we'll do shopping. And I don't think the people actually committed fraud. But I think somewhere along the line, the card got cloned or something. And because they don't know about about that and they weren't checking their bank statements, there was a good couple of transactions that went off there. And it was only when we checked that on, we were like, hang on a second.

But there was nobody out with the card. There was no reason to make those purchases. My mother's never bought anything online as far as I know. And that that was a challenge. Fortunately, the bank was really good and helped us to sort everything out. But these are the kind of things, though, if I was having an issue with the bank about this kind of a fraudulent charge and I'd gone there and I'd reported it, etc, etc, got no joy. Is that is that an instance where I would come to you guys? It's an instance where you would actually go to the banking on what's. Oh, yes, of course, the banks are separate. Yes. So they will definitely be able to intervene and assist. OK, so just to just to make that even more clear. So, for example, if I'd had a clothing account or a food account somewhere and something like that had happened, then I would come to you. So so if there's a credit issue that's not banking related. Exactly. So any other whether it is a loan that you took, whether it's a clothing, retail accounts, furniture, retail accounts, all of that comes to the credit on board. OK, fantastic stuff. All right. So many smart week, as we said, it's running from the 22nd to the 28th of March, you can go to www.mswsa.co.za.

That's mswsa.co.za. Everything is available there. It will be available there and there is no charge. It's absolutely free to people to go and make use of all of this, this sort of whole repository of knowledge and information. Exactly. That is very true. And we do encourage South Africans that please do log in. Please go and find some knowledge because we needed to to build a better South Africa and a wise financially wise South Africa. OK, so now, Gabela, you said you're doing something with with with the banking on. Yes, we our event is is teaching consumers about where do you from the inception of credit to the very end. So our event, we will still confirm when it will be running. But when I was our event, we will be teaching about stuff like your cooling of periods that you need to consider before you go and sign a credit agreement. Or when once you have signed what it is that you need to consider, we are looking at teaching about the credit bureau because you'd be surprised. A lot of consumers don't quite understand what it is, what happens exactly at the credit bureau. I mean, some some still refer to the term of black listing and it doesn't no longer exist. So people need to understand exactly how a credit profile works and what happens with your data when it gets to the credit bureau.

So the banking on with with the credit on which came together and said, we are going to teach about this and because we know very well that when it comes to credit, it affects us or we are we are a nation that really makes use of credit and credit is something that we we use and it helps within the economy of the country. So if at all we go and become reckless lenders, then it will definitely affect the economy of the country. So with with the banking on board, we will be running that event. There's one thing that I've definitely picked up, which was a little bit of a preconception of mine, is that the credit ombud was the bad guy, but you're actually not. You're the exact opposite of that. Your purpose is for you guys to be able to help consumers. Yes, definitely. We are the relationship guru, as I'd like to call it, in the credit industry. We say that as a consumer, you come and you say, I'm frustrated because this credit provider is not understanding me, then we say, OK, guys, let's listen to both stories and let's hear how we can actually resolve this matter. So we are actually the very good guys. We are the good guys when it comes to the credit provider and when it comes to the consumer, we are saying, come and let us resolve your issues when you do have issues.

OK, you see, it's made that a whole lot clearer for me. The second question and the other thing that intimidates a lot of people I know, and it's something that you have a feeling of dread about if you find out about it, is this concept of credit bureaus and your credit score and your credit rating. I know of a couple of people that ended up on there and it was it was incorrectly done. But then suddenly the credit rating was damaged. They couldn't buy anything. Is that something you deal with as well? And what does a credit bureau do? So it's a two part question. OK, so let me start firstly to explain what the credit bureau does. The moment that you apply for credit, the credit provider, you give consent to the you give consent to the provider to say that you can take my information and then put it at the credit bureaus. So what this happens is that they open a file. It's like they open a file for the specific consumer and whatever you whatever you do when it comes to credit, it will be placed on that on that file. So if at all you skip a payment, then it will be noted on that file that this consumer skipped a payment and then if you continue to make your payments, then it will be noted on it will be in your file that this consumer is making their monthly payments and they are actually a good consumer.

So it actually is like your credit footprint or fingerprint that says that this consumer is a good consumer, they are able to pay their accounts on time. Or no, this consumer is actually a bad consumer. They cannot pay their accounts on time. And this thing for the next credit provider, they are able to go and get this file and actually see exactly what type of consumer you are. And that they can with that, they can determine whether they want to give you credit or not. So it is really about the behavior of the consumer. And that is the information that is then at the credit bureau. So the moment that you get credit, you then have a credit profile, and this profile then will be used within the credit industry when you go and apply for credit. And then what happens then is that the moment that you do not make payments, the next credit provider will be able to see and say, you know what, I don't want to risk it, I cannot risk it, because clearly you could not make payments on your previous account. That means that you might do the same thing with me. And therefore, I cannot grant you credit. OK, now, is this what do you call it? Your credit report, your credit score. Is that available to us as consumers?

Are we allowed to see that or is it some deep dark secret? That is definitely something that you can get. We are, as consumers, we are allowed to get one credit profile per annum from each credit bureau. Now, we have major credit bureaus and that information is also on our website at the credit ombud, and you can get the contact details as well of those credit bureaus. You contact the credit bureau, they send you a credit profile. Now, that is when then you are able to see exactly what is going on on your credit profile. If you find that there's incorrect information reflecting on your credit profile, you are you have the right as a consumer to dispute that information at the credit bureau where that information is reflecting. OK, fantastic. Well, that's that's already helped us. Once again, we're running out of time, as I always do. Kabelo, just before I let you go, a couple a couple more questions. Where would we find the credit ombud? I mean, can we go online? Obviously, a website somewhere. What is those details? Yes, we are on www.credit ombud.org.za. And you can also call our offices on 0 8 6 1 double 6 2 8 3 7. We also have an SMS line. So if you find yourself that you don't you find that you do not have air time, you can just simply SMS help to double 4 7 8 6.

And one of our agents will call you back to assist you. We are also on Facebook and Twitter at credit ombud. OK, so well covered there in terms of the social media. That's that's brilliant. Kabelo, before I let you go, in terms of the credit ombud and yourself, what one piece of advice would you give to somebody listening to the show that would help them along their financial journey? When it comes to finances, we we keep on saying to consumers, these are your finances, you need to be responsible when it comes to your finances. And if you find that you do not know, if you find that you don't know what to do, rather contact our office and we can give you advice or refer you to somebody who will be able to give you advice, but don't sit and think that it will somehow go away because your financial woes do not just go away. You need to take action. But if at all you find that you don't know where to go, just simply come to the credit ombud and we will be able to advise you or provide you with contact details of people who will be able to advise you. Fantastic stuff and very, very sound advice. Kabelo Tamev, she is the communications liaison at the credit ombud. Kabelo, thank you so much for taking the time out and having a chat with us.

We do wish you all the best and all the best for Money Smart Week. Once again, it runs from the 22nd to the 28th of March. And you can visit www.mswsa.co.za. You can find out more and get all of that information there as well. Kabelo, thank you again and all the very best and keep on fighting the good fight for us. Oh, thank you so much for having me, David. It was an absolute pleasure. There we go. That was my special guest, Kabelo Tamev. And from the credit ombud. And it wraps it up for this particular edition of What's Involved to each and every one of you out there. Take care, look after yourselves and thank you for listening.