Anne Biccard — Author, ER Doctor, Animal lover

And it is what's involved once again, and man have I got a good guest for you. Not a good guest, a great guest for you, climbed up. Who am I talking about? I'm talking about a lady by the name of Anne Picard. Do I call you Dr. Picard or may I call you Anne? Anne is good. Dr. Anne either is good. Let's go with Dr. Anne. It's it's sort of almost in the middle there of being being formal. Actually, I'm probably going to mess that up and call you Anne anyway. But but let's start off. And you are the the author of an amazing book. And I'm going to be upfront with you on this one. It's a book I haven't had a chance to read the whole way through. For the simple reason that my fiance sought and grabbed it and said, I'm reading this. And between the tears and the cackles of laughter, that's what she's been doing. The book is called Saving a stranger's life, the diary of an emergency room doctor. Now we're going to get into the book. But let's first start off with a little bit about and tell me a little bit about yourself. Anne. Okay, well, I'm an ED doctor. That's my main job. That's what I do. And I live on a farm in outside of Hamburg, which is really pretty. And I have some rescued greyhounds to keep me company. And that's pretty much a summary of the three main things that take up my day.

Okay, but now let's let's start off. Let's go back a little bit, a little bit further. You say you stayed just outside of Joburg. Are you Joburg born and bred? And what made you want to become a doctor? So yeah, I was born in Joburg. I spent quite a lot of time in a farm, well on a farm that we farmed avos. But essentially, I grew up in Joburg. I initially went to bits and studied my initial fortress to study law. But after a year, I decided that was not for me. So I changed over to doing English and Psychology as majors and then went on to do an Honours and a Masters in Psychology. But my heart was always in medicine. So I didn't, I didn't think of doing that from school. But I spent six, seven years after school thinking I should have done medicine, went to dinner with some dear friends who invited another friend to happen to be a doctor. And as I sat down opposite to us, it's what do you do? And she said, I'm a doctor. And I was like, I should have been a doctor. And in that moment, I decided that I was going to spend the rest of my life saying I should have been a doctor or go back and become one. So from six, seven years out of varsity, I went back to year one and started with medicine. 13 years later, came out the side.

Oh, that is that is certainly a journey. I mean, to sort of cram that much knowledge in is amazing to me. But now, once you've qualified, you can kind of if I understand correctly, you've got to go and do a residency somewhere and then you can decide what you want to do in the big wide world of medicine. Why emergency room? Well, when I qualified, working in the emergency room was not a speciality. So there were specialities like internal medicine or gynecology or surgery or whatever you wanted to do ophthalmology. But that entails going to work in back in a sort of state sponsored teaching academic post for another four to five years. And to be honest, I already spent 13 years studying. So I felt I should get out there and get a job. And at that point, working in the casualty or the ED was kind of what general purpose doctors did. So the other way to general practice when they worked in the ED. So I did a little bit of general practice that really wasn't for me. I started working the ED pretty much when I left medicine, when I finished medicine, you know, I finished my house job, slowly just kind of it became what I did and what I was good at. And it suited me in terms of the structure and the and the dealing with things as they appear. Now emergency medicine is an actual speciality. So when you come out of medicine, and you decide you want to work in the emergency room, you can actually specialise as an emergency position, which is exactly the same kind of speciality time. And I think that's a good thing because I think that a lot of the people that worked in the ED before, we're just using it as a kind of a stopgap to pass the time or before they do something else. Whereas now the people that work there are people who want to specialise and work in the emergency field and they have a lot of mileage, they have a lot of training. And I think it's a really good thing for us.

Fantastic. But I mean, just just thinking about it, I've had very, very minimal experience with the emergency rooms or as you call it the ED these days. But I'm I cannot help but imagine it is an intensely stressful job. It is a very stressful job. I mean, some days go by and it's just fun. And everything goes swimmingly and other days come along, and they are just horrible. So you have to take the good with the bad. And certainly now there's much more of a science of resuscitation. So 20, 30 years ago, you just sort of bumbled along and did CPR, maybe you've done a course or two, maybe had some kind of plan of what you were going to do. But now the doctors are quite intensely trained with simulations and things like that. So when things go south, you at least have some idea of what to do rather than trying to think your way through each case, you have an algorithm to, to follow, it gives you ideas of what to think of what to check off what to exclude, where to go next with the next emergency drug, etc. So that's, that's really helpful. Because if you don't have that kind of structure, it's very, very difficult to see people in an acute emergency situation. In doing this job, and you've done this for a couple of years, I assume you you're you're are you at a government hospital, state hospital or at a private hospital?

No, no, a private hospital, private hospitals, but yeah, essentially, I'm a privateer. Okay, now, with that kind of pressure, with those kind of hours, what possessed you to write a book? Well, everyone always used to tell me that I need to write everything down because I always have stories, you know, of this and that that happened. And I do have a sort of a bit of a sense of the ridiculous. But when lockdown came along, in the beginning of last year, when we kind of knew that COVID was coming away, I felt a need to kind of record I also moved hospitals from a from a hospital where I'd worked for a long time over 20 years and an opportunity presented itself and I moved to a new hospital and I really missed my friends, you know, and I felt I should write them down, write down the story, write down what happened, you know, recorded and and with COVID coming along, I thought it was a good idea to record what was happening with that. And it's interesting to me to look back on that and remember where we were a year ago in January, you know, and how far we've come, although it doesn't feel like that, because it feels like we're just in the same place. But actually, when I read back on the book, we've come a long way.

This is the fascinating thing for me is that in this time, in this time of COVID happening, and we've all heard the stories about the kind of pressures that it's put emergency departments like the one you're at under because of alcohol and abuse and all sorts of things. You still find time to write this book and with with a sense of humor and from the bits of the book that I've managed now to read, they are they some some incredibly humorous moments. But there's also some moments that'll that'll leave people in tears, I guess if they all mushy and soft like I am. But one of the quotes is, you said, I sometimes joke with my colleagues about the grim Reaper, I call him grim, rather than Mr. Reaper, no one can work in an ED without forming some kind of relationship with him. Grim always wins in the end, of course. But it is really pleasing to get a point on the board every now and again. Now, that that is such a poignant sort of quote, because this is essentially what you're doing. You're not you're not dealing with people that are electively coming to see you. They're coming to see you under very traumatic conditions. Let's talk a little bit about in terms of the COVID thing, with with you working in an ED, your exposure to the virus or to people coming in like that must have been very high.

Yeah, so initially, you know, in March, April, May last year, we were all rushing around trying to get ready for this pandemic, we weren't really sure what we were trying to get ready for, but we were trying to get our ventilators ready, get our wards ready, get our staff ready. And really, nothing much happened, to be honest, in those three months. So we waited and waited. I wrote a lot. I waited. Nothing happened. And then everything began to happen. Certainly now, this wave is is way worse. It's like, it's like that viruses gone back to the racing shop and got a free flow exhaust and fitted with a turbo and it's back on the street to know much sicker patients, many more patients, the hospitals are absolutely sort of really at capacity. Everybody's exhausted. I mean, it's still us. It's still the same people who were in the front line nine months ago. We are still the ones seeing the patients, you know, and you look around and it's amazing to me, it's amazing to me that all my colleagues are still there, that all of my the nursing staff, my team, they have some of them have been very sick, but they're still at the front line. And it's, it's something that I think people don't realize is that you can have all the ventilators and all the beds and all the hospital capacity that you want. If you don't have the healthcare workers to look after you, you know, you know, and the healthcare workers are tired, you know, they this this second wave has really hit us hard, you know, and had we known what we'd known in the first wave, we would have known it wasn't that bad. Well, I can say is I hope there isn't a third wave.

Oh, we get to talk a little bit more about that. My special guest that we are chatting to is Dr. Anne Bacard. She is the author of an amazing book called saving a stranger's life, the diary of an emergency room doctor will have more of Dr. Bacard. When we come back, this is what's involved. And we're back with my special guest, Dr. Anne Bacard, author of saving a stranger's life, the diary of an emergency room doctor. Now, and just before the break, we were talking about the frontline workers, the health workers, yourself included. And I think you're absolutely right that people to a large degree, do not understand the stresses and the pressures that you guys have been under, and are still under. And to me, what still amazes me is we've heard about the second wave and how bad it is. And yet, people seem to be fairly blase. I mean, I'm one of those people with comorbidity. So I'm being very, very careful and touch wood. So far, I've been fortunate. But people just don't seem to be taking this so seriously. And it's, oh, it's COVID fatigue. But this is a real thing. And you guys are dealing with it. Now, in the midst of this, in the midst of this trauma and this horror, you managed to find time to write some some fairly humorous stories. And I mean, there's this one about a lady who mistook a bottle of Dettle for her beer. How on earth did that happen?

Yeah, it really surprised me, especially since the Dettle was actually still in the original container, it hadn't even been decanted into a beer glass. So, you know, sometimes people are needing to decant stuff, and they put it in a glass. And that's how accidents happen or put it in, you know, paraffin into a Coke bottle or something like that. And that's exactly how people ingest things by accident. But this was still in in the original bottle. So I wasn't really sure, I thought maybe she'd been like, trying to harm herself. But she seemed not to be too self destructive in that moment. She was just a little over the limit in terms of the previous few beers she'd had. And who would know, but Dettle when you drink it is actually very bad for you. And she had to go to ICU to get monitored for 24 hours because things could have really gone badly for him. She was all right. But yeah, it did amaze me because of very strong smelling as well. So she's not like a dressing tray as I got closer to her. It does make one wonder about how many beers you have to have had to make that kind of a mistake. But you know, let's move on. One story that I found was fascinating. And I think it speaks to your tenacity as well. Is the gentleman with the amputated arm.

Yes, that was actually a lady. A lady sorry, a lady. It was going to be a man. When they told me that we have a patient whose arm is trapped in a machine. I made two assumptions. The one is that it was a man. Yeah. And the one the second was that it would be a person sort of over the age of 50 without without actually asking the people, you know, on the on the phone, the exact demographic of the patient. So that they phoned and had a, you know, a bit of a crisis because they weren't too sure where to take the patient. And at that point, we didn't actually have plastic surgery, you know, to re implant that at the at the hospital at which I was. So I told them not to bring the patient to us, but rather to take the patient to a trauma unit, where there was somebody who could immediately try and implant the arm, but they got mixed up. So they brought the arm to us and the patient to another hospital. So we ended up with this lightly freckled young lady's arm with pink nail varnish, and no patient so we had to get the arm from our hospital to the other hospital. And of course, the paramedics wouldn't take it because they don't transport arms, they only transport real patients. So I thought of getting an Uber and taking it myself, but I was the only doctor in the ED so I couldn't leave. And then the motor of the hospital said I couldn't send the arm alone in the Uber. So it was all a bit of a mix up. And in retrospect, it's quite funny, but they did actually manage to implant the arm. And I think the lady was fine.

Goodness me. And there was a part of it as well, where you were asked when wanting to transport the arm if, if the patient was stable. And you said yes. I did, you see, because you don't want to necessarily lie. But you also want to get the best results. So, so if you phone the transferring paramedics and say I need you to take an arm they'll say no. So I said I need you to take a patient I didn't qualify that was only a portion of the patient. And of course stable means their condition is not changing. So when you could be dead and stable, you know, it just means you're not changing. So I thought I was justified in saying the condition of the patient was stable. Of course, when they get there, and they see it's an arm, they can't really turn it down. But on the phone, it's much easier.

But these are the things I have a friend who was an ED nursing sister for many years at the Joburg chain. And some of the stories that she came back and shared with me, you kind of have to have a dark sense of humor, I think, in a profession such as yours, just to kind of keep your sanity. Am I right? You do you have to have a sense of the ridiculous. You have to try and maintain your humanity in the face of sometimes things that just make you want to cut off and not actually care. Because you have to remember that in that moment, this might be my 10th resource for the week. But for that family, that's a resuscitation of their dear person or love person, that'll probably stay in their heads for the rest of their lives. So if you can try and be kind, it really makes a difference. You know, I mean, obviously, you need to do good CPR and do your job properly as an emergency room doctor. But I think that sometimes if you're overburdened and overstressed, and you're exhausted, and it's, it's an emotionally loaded situation, it's pretty easy to just cut off from it. And I don't, you know, for myself, I think that it would, it would be nice if the family remembers that the doctor was, aside from competent also kind.

Yeah, I think, but I mean, also, you know, and this is something that we need to take cognizance of with with people like yourselves, our frontline workers is that to keep that kindness and that humanity is a very, very difficult thing. And particularly, you know, when you're under pressure situations like that, you know, it's just it's amazing to me, some of the some of the stories, I mean, share share another sort of interesting or humorous story with me from the book. I'll go to that now. I just wanted to say something about about sort of having the being kind, but also not being too

blasé about things. The new doctor that I worked with that I moved hospitals, when I told him I was going back to the hospital that I'd worked with, you know, for a long time. He said to me, Oh, he's so disappointed to hear I'm leaving. And there's just, you know, after working with me for a year, he's learned so much. And I said, Oh, really? And he said, Yes. And if there's just one thing, if there's one thing that I could just learn to do like you, and I was like, what's that? And he said, roll my eyes. And so that's exactly that's me. I'll roll my eyes, but I'll still be kind, you know. Yeah, so share another story. Sure, there's so many in there. I think something that actually sort of present because I had a very similar situation yesterday is a patient who came in who's having a heart attack. And he was actually with the program, I had a look at his ECG, I was like, goodness me, you know, this sort of little pain that you are poo-pooing and not making much of but have come to the ED for is actually sounding suspicious. Well, pretty much like it's quite a chest pain. And we didn't ECG and there was this massive heart attack that was happening. So I explained everything to him. And he was finding that he was signed consent to go for the angiogram and everything was good. But when his wife came in, she was determined that he wasn't having a heart attack and sort of told me in the stage, whisper, just tell him it's reflux. I said, I can't do that. You know, I mean, he's having a heart attack, he needs to go to the cath lab, I have to speak to him. And I drew everything so nicely for them.

I explained the whole mechanism. The patient, that patient actually arrested and we managed to resuscitate him and it all had a good outcome. But when I came out of the cath lab, she said to me, but tell me, what's actually wrong with my husband? So I said, well, he's having a heart attack, you know. So she said, is he still having a heart attack? I just thought goodness me, you know, after all that time and explaining, she just didn't want to or didn't want to accept the fact that this was a very serious situation and that her husband very narrowly dodged grim in that moment, you know. People, people are interesting. We'll talk more about that. It is what's involved. My special guest is Dr. Anne Picard, author of Saving a stranger's life, the diary of an emergency room doctor. You need to get this book, you need to read it. I'm telling you now, it's going to make you laugh. And it's also going to make you cry. And hopefully, it'll leave you with a newfound respect for our frontline workers and the kind of pressures and stress that they are under. We talk about that a little bit more when we come back. This is, as I said, what's involved. And we're back with my special guest, Dr. Anne Picard, author of Saving a stranger's life, the diary of an emergency room doctor. So Anne, in terms of what you do and how you do it, because what I would imagine that you get to see quite a bit of is the result of, dare we say, people's stupidity, people's carelessness, you know, because I think a lot of things could be avoided. Is that a fair statement or not? Yeah, well, I think things probably seem like a good idea at the time. And things never start well with hold my bear and watch this. But, you know, if one had to say, have I ever done some stupid things in my life? For sure. I was just really lucky. You know, there's a picture of Facebook of the guardian angel with its head in its hands going, please don't do that. You know, so so we've all done stupid things. And some of us were unlucky. And, and certainly, I think if, if the thing whatever you did has a negative outcome, I think that that's, for me, the harder thing. So if somebody comes with a fondue fork in their hand, I'll get it out. And if they, you know, if they recover in these, there's no long term damage, then even though at the moment, there might be a lot of hysteria and screaming and shouting and tears, long term, it's a good outcome turns out well. I think the difficulty is when things don't turn out well, where people make a mistake, they, they don't think of what the possible outcome could be. And they cause harm to another person, especially to a child. I think that that's very hard for us all in the ED because it's an accident, they don't mean for it to happen. But once that has happened, you can't even take it back. And I think probably if only are the two most difficult words in the English language, it's very hard to see families try and grapple with that, you know, if only we hadn't let the child do this, go there, be unattended, whatever. And, you know, that's a very hard thing to stand back and look at, because I know they didn't intend any harm, they were just inattentable didn't think in the moment, you know. And I think we all do that. And I think, as I said, most of us are lucky that that doesn't have a negative outcome. But when it does, and it's an unsuccessful resource or whatever, it's very, very hard to watch that family just discombobulate and unravel, you know, with that knowledge. That's a very difficult part of the work. I can imagine, and I can imagine that it's one of many difficult parts. And one of the things, and I came across this a couple of days ago with people I know, and yes, sadly, I've actually met people who, number one, believe this virus is a fake and a hoax and all sorts of things. But also that people that were most put out by this ban on the sale of alcohol and they're like, but it can't surely it can't be that bad.

You work there, you're in the thick of it. How much of an effect does alcohol have? And particularly, if we're dealing with a pandemic. So I think the important thing for us all to remember is that every accident motor vehicle accident, every assault, every person who comes with trauma, and it's much more trauma, you know, the medical wards. Interestingly enough, I've had a shift in the dynamic. So, so what happened at the right at the beginning of the pandemic is the normal patients that we saw in the ED, the strokes, the heart attacks, the asthma attacks, they just didn't come to the ED that because I don't know why they didn't come. I don't know where they were. I mean, a lot of my colleagues, and I discussed this, where are where are those cars having heart attacks, they must still be having heart attacks, why aren't they coming to the ED. But the people that keep coming are the people who are in motor vehicle accidents who are victims of assault and stabbings and shootings and things like that. And unfortunately, that is very alcohol related. So the difficulty is that those people take beds. So they take up the time of the surgeons, they take up ICU beds, they take theatre time, they're taking ventilators for after the operation. And, and, and if you can cut that down, it makes the hospital much more available for for medical cases for people with COVID who need those ventilators. And I sort of thought right at the beginning, you know, I mean, obviously, the set of alcohol is debatable because of all the other financial things. But certainly, a curfew or, or limiting people going out and drinking is a huge plus for the hospital, because those people who are driving on the roads at two o'clock in the morning, who are getting into fights, who are getting into that kind of situation, they're avoidable, they don't need to be doing that, you know, the chap who's having the heart attack is going to have the heart attack, regardless of what curfew, whatever you put on, you know, so if we plan limited, we should. And, you know, I sort of believe that the curfew is, is a great idea. And certainly, if we can stop people drinking too much, I mean, not drinking in moderation, but but going out and, and getting to a point where they literally, you know, are not themselves is going to save us a lot of money and time. Yeah. And as you said, you know, rightfully so that you're going to make a place for more patients. And I mean, I'll be honest, when I we had our last family meeting with our president, and he said we were remaining on level three hours, I was a little shocked, I understand the economic impact of it. But, wow, I think this thing. And as you rightly say, it is the second wave is is way well, because first wave, you know, most of us knew of people who knew people who knew people that had gotten COVID. This time around, it's it's friends, it's family. And I don't know if it's just a perception, but but the mortality rate seems to be higher this time. It definitely is. So those numbers that we heard on the radio, that are just exponentially growing up, you know, on Christmas Day, we were excited because it was 14,000 new cases. Now, just on the weekend, 22,000 new cases. I mean, don't forget those cases, the numbers that are going to look behind, because, you know, you have to be tested, the test has to go to the NRCD, the NRCD has to give that result to the government. So we're probably looking at the numbers we've seen today actually be the people who were tested on Friday, Saturday, last week. But the numbers are exponentially just going up. And those numbers are turning into people that we know. So yes, everybody knows now somebody who's had COVID who's been sick with COVID using the hospital. And it's definitely a younger demographic this time around. So we were seeing a lot of people from all day terms, 80, 70, you know, plus years, last time around this time, we're seeing a lot of young, absolutely healthy people who just, oh, they just crash. I mean, they just do so badly, you know, despite your best efforts, their lungs just get obliterated by this virus. And we don't, I don't think we still understand why that's happening.

But it is a different demographic, demographic of people, way more infectious, it seems, way more serious, you know, way more. If you if you do get sick with it, you, it seems to be more contagious, seems to be more serious. And definitely, I mean, literally, if I see 20 people with COVID a day, I'm not surprised at the moment. So it's a lot, it's a lot of people. It's a lot of burden on the healthcare, a lot more people coming in knowing that they're positive, you know, so telling us at the door, I've tested positive, you know, four, five days ago, and now I'm short of breath, puts a lot of stress on us, then keeping those patients away from the other patients, trying to keep them in a separate part of the ED, making sure people use the correct PPE, you know, it's very stressful. I can, I can only imagine, and when we come back, I'm going to wrap up, and we maybe we'll talk a little bit more about the more serious part of the book, and then obviously where people can get it, because this, I think, particularly during these times, is required reading. And just upfront, I want to say thank you for making that time and writing a book like this, because it certainly is eye opening. This is what's involved. We'll be back in just a bit with my special guest, Dr. Anne Bacard. And we're back, my special guest is Dr. Anne Bacard. And two questions for you. The first one is, in the book and necessarily, not all outcomes end well. And for you guys, do you, I can't say, how does it affect you? Because it must, you can't just become numb to it.

No, no question it affects you. And I mean, no question. It doesn't matter how long you do it for. And the day it doesn't affect you, to be honest, is the day you should stop being a doctor. And that's the truth of the matter. The day you honestly don't care if a patient has good outcome or not, is the day that you're either too tired or too burnt up to to carry on with the work. So to me, that would be a warning sign if I genuinely didn't care, you know, if I was just going through the motions, not engaging with each case and trying to, to figure it out. And I see that in my colleagues, it doesn't matter how long they've been in the in the profession, they are still engaged with the patients and wanting the best outcome. And I think that's something that people don't always know about doctors is that I don't personally know any doctor who genuinely hasn't cared about the outcome of the patient, they may not have the emotional skills to do so, they may be distracted, they may be tired, there may be other factors. But when you teach in a in a hospital, most almost all, I could say all, but I'm sure, you know, that's a sweeping statement. But almost every single person wants to be a better doctor, they want to have a better outcome, they want to learn, they don't want to make mistakes. And if you teach properly, and there's some fantastic institutions that teach emergency medicine, I mean, you know, prof cook who's been in years in the job, and his sort of start of every course is, I want you to run towards the patient to help, I don't want you to run away. You know, he recognizes that you'll say it's human instinct to run away from a crisis, but he wants you to run towards the patient because you know what to do. And I think that that's amazing teaching. I mean, he really is an absolute legend as a teacher, and has taught so many doctors me included, you know, the kind of algorithms and the steps. And then when you get out there, and it's you and the patient, it's almost like he's standing there next to the bed. And I'm asking you a question with this sort of rice smile on his face and saying, oh, doctor, this is not going as you planned, what are you going to do now? And that's, that's what's training is about, you know, and, and obviously, some some don't have a good outcome, you know, sometimes when the patient comes in that Graham's got the upper hand, generally, but I need your best. You don't have a better one.

Yeah, I was actually going to comment on that. Because I mean, in a lot of those situations, you must have grim peering over your one shoulder, you said you might have the profit the other shoulder, but grim is there and peering over. So that that can't be fun. And before we get on to the book, and where people are able to get it, what are you guys that are on the front line now, doing to take care of yourselves? And can we help as members of the public in any way? So I think what what everyone could do to help, well, certainly the one thing I must say is that people who are covered positive have been amazing, you know, they come into the casualty, they tell you up front, they're trying to avoid making other patients sick, we only have one set of PPE to wear for all the patients that you're going to see. So I'll say from the daughter's and I'm gonna get your history, I'm gonna do the extra, and then I'll come into the room and examine you once in the PPE. I'm not going to stand in the room six times with one patient. Every single one of them said, please don't come too close. You know, then they understand that that there's only one of me and 30 or 40 of them a day. And I think that that's amazing. So that's what the public can do to help us be responsible. Tell people if you've been exposed, don't go on flights, try and you know, keep the transmission down. You know, so, so, you know, in terms of helping individual doctors, I think what would help us a lot more is if, if there was, we've all got complacent. I mean, I'm not saying the public is complacent, we've also got complacent, you know, because you can't keep your guard up for nine months every single day.

So it slips and then, you know, things slip through the cracks, and that becomes a new normal. So, so I think what the public could do, what everyone can do is just try and get this, get the transmission down and try and get break the cycle of infection, you know. And yeah, I mean, you know, we have trauma counselors and things like that in the casualty. But to be honest, sometimes it's better not to make a chink in the wall, you know, if you're gonna sit down and talk about how stressful the day was and how sad you are about it, you're not going to be very effective for the rest of the day. So sometimes it's better to just keep the defenses on and finish writing that file and pick up the next one. Wow, I take my hat off to you. I really do. And I'm sure the listeners will do exactly the same. So how do you how do you decompress after a shift like that? I know you mentioned that you've got your rescue dogs, your greyhounds. And there was also mention of some other creatures. Is that one of your ways of distressing and decompressing? Yes, you know, the greyhounds, I think the thing that for me is that they all come from, you know, very bad places. I mean, greyhounds are not well treated in, in general, in any country in the world. I mean, they race and when they finish racing, they throw them away. And then in South Africa, those those greyhounds become hunting dogs, and they often have a pretty lousy life. And the thing that for me is that keeps you on the track is that those greyhounds are still hopeful. They still they might be scared, they might be finished rakes, they may be absolutely abused and have terrible mange, but they still have hope that it'll be better. And I think that that's really you know that when you say to me what keeps you going is that if you can focus on that hope, if you can focus on the two people who did help today, and not the one person that you that you lost. I think that that's a very important lesson for us to learn cognitively, because it's so easy to get Maya down in, in the bad recess, what went badly, what maybe I could have done, how terrible it was to tell that family, you can only think about that. But actually, I saw 20 other people yesterday too, you know, and those people were positive. So I think the greyhounds teach you that that even though it comes from a terrible place, they still have hope and they all still get shiny and and have a good life, you know, I think that's a nice thing.

Yeah, wonderful, wonderful stuff. And is the book available as they say at all good bookstores? I do believe so. Yes. And I think also on the internet, on various platforms that sell books, I think there are still some available. Fantastic. Well, trust me, you need to go out and get this book, it is a must read. And I'm hoping there's going to be a follow up in happier times. And the book is called Saving a stranger's life, the diary of an emergency room doctor, the fact that you wrote this is to me just amazing. And, and I think I speak on behalf of, you know, the entire radio station, our listeners, when we want to say thank you to you and to each and every frontline worker out there, that every single day goes out and puts themselves at risk and faces this this pandemic head on. You guys are truly angels and you're amazing and thank you. Well, I can't say it's a pleasure, but it's my job. It is a pleasure. It's a pleasure to help people. It's not a pleasure to get COVID. But it's a pleasure to help people. And that's why I'm still at it. And thank you for inviting me. Wonderful stuff. And we wish you all the best. As I said, I am looking forward to a follow up book to this and go well. Enjoy the enjoy the great the greyhounds give them a give them a love and a hug from me as well. I love animals too. And I'm sure we'll chat to you again soon one day.

Yes, hopefully. Have a good day. And stay safe. There we go. That was my special guest, Dr. Anne Bicard, author of Smoking a stranger's life, the diary of an emergency room doctor go out and get it. And on that note, it wraps it up for this edition of what's involved to each and every one of you. Stay safe. And thank you for listening.