Abed Tau — Entrpreneur, Family Man, Author Of Searching Through Dustbins

what's involved this week, proudly brought to you by Retire Rich and Happy. You can check out more about them at retirerichandhappy.co.za. My special guest in studio now. We were just chatting off here, and as soon as I saw that this book was coming out, I think I must have been one of the first people that said, I have to talk to this man, it's Abed Thao. How are you? Did I get it right, Abed, Abed, Abed? - Yeah, so how I tell people to remember is dial a bed, or love what you sleep on, a bed, watch you sleep on, so Abed. - Abed, okay, all right. The book is called "Searching Through Duspans, "An Authentic Account of the Birth of a Business." Now, the story behind this is fascinating. I don't want to give too much away, but let's talk about Abed, and you know,

where do you come from? What are you all about? Background, education, because it's a fascinating story, and it's one of those stories that you go, hell yes, I can relate to that. So start at the beginning for me. - Yeah, so Dave, firstly, thank you so much for having me. - That's a pleasure, Abed. - I think my story actually starts with my dad, so there's a chapter where I write about my dad a bit, but what I didn't say in the chapter is that when my dad was 15 years old, he decided that he's going to move to Joburg, and he was born and bred in Limpopo, and he had decided back then, as a 15-year-old, that he knew that he wanted to educate himself in Johannesburg because he had thought that the systems in Limpopo were not adequate, and he wanted a better life for himself, and the kids that he was going to produce at the age of 15. And you know, my dad went through teaching himself, he lived in Soweto, he worked as a garden boy, and the reason I say my story starts with him is because if my dad had not made that single decision to move to Joburg at the age of 15, most likely I would not be where I am today because that catapulted so many things that have sort of gone right for us in terms of his love for education, his love for his kids and just wanting better.

So my story really just starts with my dad's decision to sacrifice so much for me and my six siblings. So, you know, we grew up in Joburg, often going to Limpopo because a lot of our family is there. - I was going to say, the surname kind of gives away the Limpopo heritage, really. - 100%. So, you know, we grew up going to Limpopo to go visit our gran and our cousins. And you know, my dad eventually worked as an assistant director at the Department of Education, and I'll never forget my metric year because he had access to our metric box before they came out. - No pressure there. - So my dad knew my metric results like a whole month before, but to the book, I mean, I've always wanted to start businesses. I think the two, three privileges that I think that have been, you know, monumental for me, the one I've just spoke about, my dad's decision. And the second one is that I've always wanted to start a business. I'm, you know, in the book, I talk about the various different businesses that I've tried to start. So, you know, if you ask a lot of people what they want to do at 18, 20, 40, a lot of them wouldn't know what to say. And I think one of the things that I've always been blessed with is that I've always known that in some shape, way or form, I'm going to work for myself.

And that's quite a instrumental thing to know at the age of 16, that that's what you want. Because I think in that formative years, you're not really sure, do you want to be a doctor? Do you want to live in South Africa? Do you want to be a nurse? Do you want to be an accountant? And what I knew as a resounding yes, is that I want to work for myself. So I knew that from 16 up until now, and I'm 31, I'd work for myself. And I've always worked diligently to try to get to that goal. - But you've had, and I think the total is, I don't know, it could have changed now since I've last done my cyberstalking. Like somewhere around 15 businesses in your life, from doing it, from being like a car wash service, where you were wondering around, where was it? Howton, I believe, with the buckets and all of the materials going to say, can we, you've done that. I need you to tell me though, the most interesting one, because let me just give you a bit more background on a bit, is you're a qualified CA, you did very well there. You did very well in your studies. Then you currently are a director at Tamani Consulting. You're also the co-founder of a fantastic initiative that just makes me so excited, called Tutami, which we'll get into.

And then Silicon Mabening is those. But you know, hell, okay, it's a lot. But I want you to share the vodka story. 'Cause that, that to me is the hallmark of an entrepreneur. - Ah, man, you're gonna get no listeners after here. (laughing) So it's one of my favorite stories. So when I was in first year at UJ, there was a race which still exists called Forandach. They were notoriously known for throwing what was called the punch party. And every two months they throw this big punch party where hundreds and hundreds of students would arrive. And I saw this as an opportunity to sell vodka. And I had to be strategic in that I had to get there at 11 o'clock when they were already drunk and unsuspecting of my cheap vodka. - You're affordable, affordable. - My affordable, just a bit of what I did. (laughing) So I went and bought this vodka called Alaska. Last I checked, it's not even in production anymore. I think it killed even people. - It's now been turned into a paint stripper. (laughing) We all know those vodka. But when you're a student, it doesn't matter. - Oh no, it doesn't matter. - The label doesn't matter. It's the effect. I mean, this bottle was 20 rand for one and a half liters.

So you can imagine that this is just finesse. (laughing) And I'd go to, at UJ, the McDonald's was quite down the road. So, you know those white plastic cups of tomato sauce? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I'd borrow those, you know? - Okay. - And those are gonna be my shooter glasses. Upon arriving at 11 o'clock to the unsuspecting youth, start selling my shooters for 20 rand a shot, recovering the whole bottle. (laughing) - Your first shot. - The first shot. - Yes, I did that for like three years until the SRC shot me down. (laughing) - But it just seems that you've always wanted to do this. And then, you know, when I started reading about this stuff, I'm like, how, how, and I've often made this comment, how do you take, like, you're a CA, okay? You're supposed to be dull and gray and boring. And I mean, you know, you're not. And, you know, just from my cyberstalking, I mean, your officers look like, how, that's a good place to be. And, only that. I mean, you have, by all accounts, the most amazing wife on the face of the planet. - Yeah, Tibbs is amazing, isn't she? - Yeah, that's where I was getting, I don't know if I should introduce you as Tibbs and I, but. (laughing) - You're welcome to introduce me as Tibbs and I, yeah.

- But this, the book started, I mean, you'd now, you'd qualified, you went to work for Deloitte. - Yeah, I did. - You know, now there's people that are going, show who in their right mind gets a shot at working at Deloitte and then decides, nah, not for me. - Yeah, so, I mean, you know, Dave, there's so many things you touched on there. So, Deloitte is an amazing company and I learned so much there. They gave me my first opportunity to go overseas. And I lived overseas for six, seven months with Deloitte between Philadelphia and Boston, which is amazing. I learned a lot. And when I came back, I was appointed as a manager in the Africa Learning Team. And that saw me travel into different African countries, which in itself was just an incredible experience. But when I turned 26, you know, five years ago on my crown birthday, on the 26th of Feb, I thought to myself that, you know, I bet you've always wanted to be an entrepreneur. You said you want to make change. You want to impact. And the way you want to impact is to create sustainability and sustainable jobs. And at that point, I didn't have a dog. I didn't have a cat. I didn't have a wife. The only real responsibilities that I had was helping out at home.

And I just thought that we serve the ones we love the most when we actually reach for our own dreams. So, I just thought this was probably now or never. And luckily, thank God, we haven't had to look back and it's been almost six years. So, yeah, I've worked at Deloitte, but I just knew that innately in my heart, I want to be an entrepreneur. And I owed it to myself to want to try. And if I was encouraging my kids one day, if they were sort of sitting at the balcony saying, "Hey, Dad, I want to try soccer." I'd want them to try. I'd want them to go and live a full life and say, you know, these are the things I tried. These are the things I failed and hear the lessons. - And it's not because what I like about the book as well, and we are going to meander. That's what I do. - That's okay. - The listeners are used to me meandering, so it's fine. But it's about explaining and having fun and everything. This was, you didn't start out wanting to write a book. - Completely not. - This was a Facebook post. But you give a reality check about being an entrepreneur,

but you give it in a way that is not like to don't even do it. Because I've often said to people, becoming or being an entrepreneur is the most exciting, scariest thing you will ever do in your life. And you use that analogy in your first post, which was you've got to look through a lot of Daspins. - Yeah, you know, so you're absolutely right. I was never meant to be an author. On the list of the things I wanted to do, including Climb Everest, an author was never one of them. And last year on March the 22nd, I remember vividly, I don't know what possessed me, but I just decided that I'm going to write a post on Facebook about some of the journey we've had. And it went along the lines. A lot of people think quitting your job is romantic. You get to wear your favorite Nike Air sneaker, get to finally use your Mac Airbook, wear your hippie indie earphones and work in that coffee shop. And the clients just pour in and the reality couldn't be further from the truth. You're going to have to search through a lot of Daspins, convert every knowing to a yes until you have a business. And, you know, that got shared over a hundred times. And so many people, I mean, it's such a short little piece of writing.

- But it resonated. - I think it did. I think it resonated with a lot of people. And, you know, one of the guys in the comments challenged me to say, you know, a lot of the people who talk about entrepreneurship, it's always so glamorized and it's always so, look at my Instagram, I'm traveling. And, you know, this was so refreshing to read, to say, it's actually tough and it's actually not that great often. And he challenged me to keep writing. And then I started writing, I'm searching through Daspins, sort of every two weeks on Facebook. But again, not to try write a book, you know, it's just authentic accounts of how Tebs and I left alert, you know, as 25-year-olds earning over half a million each and went back home and earned 3,000 rand and-- - Yeah, and there's an interesting story about your brief foray into being a venture capitalist as well, where you managed to lose your entire nest egg within a couple of months. But these are stories that ring true. You know, because often we do, if somebody is a business owner, you don't really want to go out and say, listen, dude, it sucks. There are times when I lie in bed and I don't know if you're still there. I certainly am. I think, jeez, if I had a job, no.

I wouldn't have to worry quite as much because, you know, I would know I could kind of coast by and at the end of the month, somebody's gonna give me a check. Might not be what I want, but at least I know I'm getting it. As an entrepreneur-- - No guarantees. - And then, of course, if you are the kind of entrepreneur that I aspire to be, which is what I call a conscious capitalist, you worry about your staff. You worry about your family, the people around you, because it becomes more important to look after them. So, you end up going without quite a lot. - Yeah. - I mean, your first office is, you know, you guys, I think you mentioned that the first office, you got a discounted rate for it for like four grand a month. - And you couldn't afford it. - And then, you were able to pay yourselves the princely sum of 3,000 round. (laughing) You hear that and you think this entrepreneur things ain't so great. - Not for me, hey. - Ain't so great. And yet, you've done it and let's talk about, nevermind the book so much, but Timoney Consulting. Tell me about that, because when I read why you were doing it, I like wanted to like give you a call right then and say, listen, I've got a shoebox, several shoeboxes full of slips.

Can I come and drop them off? Because you answered what I believe is a massive need for small, medium businesses. - I'll tell you. So, you know, with the businesses that we've started, I think I've learned so many different lessons and I unpack them in the book and I think Timoney Consulting remains for me actually the epicenter of the message of the book. So there's a chapter called Boring Is Good, Stay Away From Exciting. - I like that, yeah. - For me, that chapter is everything. If you ask any of our business partners at the office, that's how we live. So with Timoney Consulting, it's a bookkeeping business. We started as a bookkeeping business. Now we do sort of different advisory services. But, you know, in the fraternity of chartered accountants, you'll find very few who quit their jobs to say they want to go do bookkeeping because typically it's so boring, it's mundane, it's repetitive. It's not the exciting mergers acquisition, private equity, leveraged buyouts that we all sort of want to do when you just got that, you know, so elusive four letters after your name, CA, SA. So a lot of my mates when I left Deloitte were getting into corporate jobs and really fancy jobs and fancy titles and fancy addresses where they were working.

And that was the first lesson for me that, you know, this boring little business was gaining so much traction, but it wasn't getting us any fame. It wasn't getting us front cover newspapers. But what we found is that boring businesses are so uncompetitive because no one wants to do them, no one. And what we quickly learned with exciting businesses or rather the exciting titles, even my friends who are CA's will tell you that they too want to be the FD, but there's only one FD at a company. It's the exciting role and that job gets 100,000 applications and no different to businesses that to me are in the exciting realm. I just find that the boring, the mundane and they exist in every industry. So whether you're in radio, whether you're in restauranting, whether you're in accounting, there is a boring element mundane that no one wants to do, but it's so uncompetitive. And that's really where I would start as a new entrepreneur. - But the thing is you say it's boring and yes. I mean, I have this aversion to figures, okay. And I've said this many, many times and the sand pot is my fiance is a Microsoft certified, highly, highly certified trainer of Excel, okay. She trains the big, big, big boys, okay.

There's some of the guys at SASL, the engineers and everything. She trains them on all an arc on Excel for love nor money can I Excel, mental block. And I said, now look at that and everything blurs and it's so boring. But yet when you talk about boring, what you do is so vital because entrepreneurs by and large are not financial people. - Yeah, yeah. - And I know when I first started this, I was like, oh, tax and are you a provisional taxpayer? - Yeah, yes. Providing I'd have some money, I'll pay tax. I don't know. So you do fantastic. And I mean, it is, you say it's boring, but I mean, you know, looking at the offices where you guys are now and the way work gets done, it certainly doesn't look like a boring environment. - So we definitely, you know, boring is maybe just the title that I call our business, but we certainly don't run a boring environment. I mean, if you walked into our office, you'd think you're walking into a little Google, you know, it's colorful. - They have sleep pods. - We're working on those. (laughing) The engineers haven't signed that off. But we've got trees, we've got all these sort of things and music and all the cool things that make our office really quirky.

But it was just one of the big lessons for me and an opportunity for us was just that, you know, we were giving all these amazing services to the big corporates when we were at Deloitte. And I just find that the biggest needs in the country where employment is always going to come from were these small businesses, but they didn't know how to project cashflow. They didn't know how to manage their books and how to pay tax. And those things, even though they seem cumbersome, they become the thing that inhibits businesses to grow, to access to funding and just thinking about how you grow your business. So we actually went into a huge opportunity, if you ask me. - Awesome, I'm just having a look for questions and even there's coming up. There's a couple coming in. If you'd like to make a comment, if you'd like to ask Abed Summing, you can SMS us 41348, those SMS is charged at 150. Otherwise, WhatsApp us, you know the number by now, 0848220938, we'd love to hear from you, have a chat. When we come back, Abed, I'd like to talk about some of the other businesses 'cause two to me just seems like, it's one of those things where you can slap yourself upside there and go, "Why didn't I think of them?" 'Cause it seems now that it's launched, glaringly obvious, but it wasn't.

- Love to talk to you about it. - And it's such a stunning business. We'll be back with Abed and chatting about his life, his book, "Searching Through Duspans." It's a must read, that's all I'm gonna tell you. It's a must read, we'll find out now where we can actually get hold of it, do all of that in just a bit. It is what's involved on Mix 93.8. Proudly brought to you by Retire Rich and Happy. You can find out more at retirerichandhappy.co.za. What's involved? Proudly brought to you by Retire Rich and Happy. Check out more at retirerichandhappy.co.za, my special guest in studio, Abed Tao. Talking about his book, "Searching Through Duspans," an authentic account of the birth of a business, in this case, several businesses. Before the break, we said that we would have a bit of a chat about your other businesses because two to me is, to me, absolutely phenomenal. I don't understand too much about what the next one, the other one does. What is it? Silicon Mabaneng. Yes, Silicon Mabaneng. It kind of sounds like a tech company, just off the top of my head. But tech and me, when you get to my age, are battle operating a phone these days.

Talk to me about where two to me came from. Sure, so it's 2015 and my wife and I, I wanted to say Tebs and I, but-- Go ahead, do it, do it. She's listening to, I hope she's listening. She is listening. Hey Tebs, next time we're gonna talk to you, okay, if I'd known you would have come in, I would have said, bring her with us. She would have made a better guest. So yeah, we decided to take a trip to Silicon Valley to go see the hub of all this excitement in the world and we got to go to an MBA class at Stanford who a friend of ours was there. And being fascinated to be in a class with these young minds was in itself an amazing experience, but what fascinated me the most was, most of these kids were starting apps. I mean, there were kids that had apps for walking dogs, cutting hair, some of them with no commercial substance, but what fascinated me the most was that they were just trying. And there was just this culture of garage startups and people just saying, I wanna try stuff, I wanna build an economy, I wanna hire people. And I just thought, man, this is the type of thinking we need in South Africa and if you mix it a bit with technology, you could really affect a lot of lives. And when we're on the flight back a set of tips, I'm going to start a business in technology.

I don't know the first thing about coding, I don't know the first thing about SQL queries, but I'm going to start a business that involves some form of a uber-ification of some of the big challenges we have in South Africa. So upon our return, was at a Briar week after that where I met my co-founder, Dylan, and I don't know how we got talking in that night, but I sort of told him that, geez, I'm so fascinated with technology and I really wish that I knew someone who could code because I have this really big idea that I want to affect change in South Africa. And he was like, well, I'm a software engineer, what's the idea? And initially it was, we didn't really want to do tutoring or education, we thought maybe we could help domestic workers, we could maybe do something in healthcare, but one of the things that we both agreed on was that education for us remains the epicenter of all of the semantic issues in the country. And if you sort of fix that or address that or touch some lives there, they would have a ripple effect in terms of addressing some of our wider issues, inequality, unemployment, and all of that sort of stuff. So we decided on a handshake that we're 50/50 partners at that Briar, and on the Monday, Dylan and I started what today is a really good education business called Tutami.

We were dubbed the Uber for tutoring, we won a number of competitions, we went on to raise a significant amount of money to the tune of eight million rand from different investors. And today we have a team of coders and guys that work for us and for good. It's actually a social enterprise. We today have probably tutored and provided education services to probably over 30, 40,000 kids. - And it's stuff that they wouldn't necessarily have access to. - 100%. - The only downside to that, and I think you mentioned in the book as well, is data in this country. So big providers. - Hopefully listening. - If you're listening tonight, zero rate some data there for us. It's all good and well that we can zero rate some entertainment data or give you free data for entertainment. That's great, fantastic. But I've often, often said this, that's one of the biggest barriers we have in this country at the moment, is how much data costs. And if they can do a social responsibility thing and say, listen, if it's education, we're going to zero rate it. - You know, it's such a good point that you make. So, you know, TutorMe's got two divisions. So it's got a division for varsity learners where we partner with corporates that provide bursaries and we provide kids with academic support for their tuition in terms of tutoring and mentoring.

And from a high school perspective, it's absolutely free for learners to go onto mobichooter.com and get tutoring unlimited between four and eight o'clock. They talk to live tutors and teachers. Every single day they have access to content like worksheets, textbooks, absolutely free. Kids don't pay anything. And the heartbreaking thing is that a lot of the kids that we really want to serve don't have access to data. And we find that the kids that are logging on and are using it are typically kids who have access. They've got wifi at home and they get richly benefit from the service and hence the data issue in South Africa. You know, it's one of those things and very often we forget about that because whilst many things have changed in this country, there are still many, many, many people that don't have access to that kind of stuff. And you think about some of the rural areas, how we could transform lives, if we could take technology there, even if we plunked down a blooming container that had internet access for these kids because it just opens up a whole new world for you. I mean, you're a fan, I know from the book, I certainly am a big proponent of lifelong learning. And you know, the internet has become my go-to place now.

When I want to learn something, short courses, online, where do I go? I want to learn this. So I'd call it, it's probably a term I haven't coined this just in time learning. But I mean, if we want to do something in the business or if I have another one of my weird and wonderful ideas, Google is your friend, YouTube is your next best friend. - 100%. - And we need to have this access to people like that. - Yeah, so I mean-- - For people like that. - For me, it's actually incredible in terms of what you say because we truly believe that if you open up the internet to a lot of these sort of destitute and disadvantaged places, I think a lot of good would come out of it because places where there are no teachers, I mean, you could run, like you said, you could have a container with internet and you could all of a sudden give access to kids in rural areas, the best teacher because they can do a Skype call, they could do a Skype classroom and all of a sudden the kids there are getting access to the best teachers countrywide. There's just so much stuff that you could do and I'm optimistic that the country's going to head in those directions. So I'm not negative, I just think it's taking some time.

- Before we get into our next break, you did mention in the book, now don't recall if you said it or somebody said it of you, but aspirations to be a black brown joffy. - Yes, you're showing off that you read the book.

It's so funny that story because before we go, I'll be quick. You know, when I quit my job at Deloitte, I met up with a friend of mine's husband, a Jewish guy, and I was sitting with him and I was saying, and again, when you quit your job, people don't understand it ordinarily because they're just like a bed, you're doing so well at work, you've just become a CA, they seem to like you, why would you leave? And I remember saying that to him that, you know, I want to be the next black brown joffy. I want to create multiple industries and a diversified company. And he had a bit of a chuckle, you know, understandably, because what brown joffy has done is incredible, it's unbelievable. - Listen, you know, he's an amazing man. - I think he's the entrepreneur's entrepreneur in South Africa, you know. - Rumor has it that he does every now and again listen to the show. So maybe, you know, we never know, we never know. I'd love to chat to him though. - I think you should. - I'd love to get him brought in. But then again, I mean, there's so many people, I don't have enough hours because of all of the amazing, and this goes back to our country. We've got some of, why do we have to, I've interviewed international guys, okay, because I went through a phase where, you know, well, we don't have enough knowledge here, we don't have this, let's try and talk to international people, good and well, they can bring us stuff.

But locally, what we've got on this continent, in this country, we get the most amazing, amazing people. I mean, I had Billy Silicon in here the other night. I was blown away. I spent an hour going, I need more time, let's talk more. - Let's keep going. - Yeah, so we've got the most amazing thing. Maybe Brian will give us a shot and we can take it from there. Just remember that SMS number, if you'd like to ask any questions, four one three four eight, oh eight four eight double two, oh nine three eight. Somebody who's obviously an accountant said, "How can you say accounting is boring?" I love the numbers. We'll talk about that maybe, I don't know. What's Involved Proudly Brought to you by Retire Rich and Happy, check it out at retirerichandhappy.co.za. My special guest in studio is coming back. If I need to bring Tabs back so we can have a chat. (laughing) There's Abed Tal, author of an amazing book, and this is what is amazing because you say you're not an author, you never set out to write a book, but this, and it's done in such a human, genuine way, and I think that's why it appealed to me. Right from the time I heard the title of Searching Through Daspans, because it's a very South African kind of thing, you know what I'm saying?

And it's a sad thing on the one side, is that we have so many people that do literally. - Search through the Daspans. - Search through the Daspans, but it's true, it's inspiring, and I mean you are what, 31 now? 15 businesses, some people would say well, what happened to all of them? Pivot, pivot, pivot is the new way of saying it didn't work out, I stuffed up, so I did something different. So now we call it pivoting. I've pivoted a lot. (laughing) But you've done this, you've got the tech company, two to me is now up and running. Your business is, your businesses are, 'cause you run them all from your one office, don't you? - Yeah, we do. - So, so money consulting is now, it's still a baby, and I love the energies of marriages, 'cause when I first read like five marriages, and I'm like, okay, you're a very brave man, but you liken a business to a marriage, and-- - And the partners. - And the partners, and so, you know, and you say some of them are like children, your businesses, and they're growing and developing. Some of them are doing better than others, but on the whole, things, would you say you've turned a corner? - Yeah, so-- - Overnight success, taken you like five, 10 years, but you've done it.

- Yeah, I mean, I think the disclaimer is that, you know, what is success? Like, who can really give you an adequate enough answer, especially in business? But to be honest with you, we have found our stride. I mean, collectively, our whole businesses now employ over 60, 70 people, so we've become like an enterprise. So, Tamani Consulting now has three divisions, Tamani Consulting, Advisory and Assurance. We do audits, we do a whole lot of financial advisory services, and we've got two different partners that have now joined the business. We do various work for a lot of enterprises that a lot of people have heard of. You know, Silicon is a good business. We build technology for a lot of big household names in South Africa as well, whether it be apps or ERPs. And TutorMe, as I said, it's a business that, we're actually in the process of selling TutorMe to the PSG group at the moment, which is really cool because they own Kuro and there's just so much they can do in the technology and how to spread it to different areas of need. So, have we turned a corner? I still think we are at the embryonic part of our business. I think we are enjoying the journey. We certainly are at the point where we are not panicking about having to look for jobs, particularly the five directors.

And that for me is in itself a good story for a five, six year old business. But I think the message really is that it just takes time. Like, I mean, I liken in the book business to a bamboo tree. And I don't know if a lot of your listeners would know, just the process it takes for a bamboo tree to grow. You know, it takes five years of you looking after this thing and nothing happens. It doesn't break ground. You put the seed in, you water it every single day. It must get enough sunlight, nutrients, and you can't give up on it. Five years you see nothing, it's just soil. It doesn't break a shoot. And at year five, it takes six weeks to grow 40, 50 meters high, making it one of the toiletries in the world. And isn't that our dreams and our businesses? It just, there's no overnight successes and you have to keep nurturing and watering these dreams. And when you do get to a point where it breaks ground, often that's what we then start terming us. Oh my God, I bet it's an overnight success. But a lot of people didn't see you watering this bamboo tree with nothing in sight. And I mean, we were talking off air. Again, I keep saying some of the most interesting conversations happen off air, so we really should record those as well.

But for me, where I used to be very, very financially focused, to find myself by the price of my toys, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, took me losing everything and reevaluating. And I said it to you now, and I've had it said to me by so many people, with what I'm doing now, are we making a lot of money? No, not at all. Am I happier than I've ever been in my life? Absolutely. And I think when you get that balance, whatever success means for you, for me, it's about, it has developed into becoming to be of service and to give back. And in the act of giving, if we happen to make money out of it, it's so much the better, because then it becomes easier. But if you don't love what you're doing, I think it's a challenge. There's a chapter in the book where I say what to teach your kids. The disclaimer is that TBS and I don't have kids yet. But there's three fundamentals that I talk about. I think, obviously, there are so many things to teach your kids. And in the chapter, I disclaim that TBS will teach them all the amazing things. But the three things that I'd love my kids to really learn. Number one, learn to sell. I'll tell you why. I think a lot of people, if you told them that you've got to be a salesperson, they all sort of shy away from that because they're like, oh, no, I don't sell.

I'm the guy who produces the music. Or I'm the guy that does the T. Or I don't do that. But all of us, every single day, are selling. You are selling yourself to your husband, your wife, your kids at work. When you are pursuing that girl adversity, you are constantly in the art of selling. And I really think that if you teach yourself to sell, you rid yourself of poverty. Because anyone who can sell will never go hungry. So that's the first thing that I think I'll teach my kids. But to the point that you are making, the last two things out of the three would be find ways to serve. I think, for me, we would not be enthusiastic about the things that we did if we did not feel that it served others. We are in love with creating jobs. We're in love with seeing how the money we give to our employees changes not just their lives, but the people that they affect and operate with us for. It's still a surreal thing for us when our employees go to banks with our payslip and get car financing and get bonds approved. And I always look at these guys. I'm like, are you guys nuts? You think I'm going to keep paying you for these years? But you've got to find a way to serve. And service comes from a place of passion and a place of wanting to make a difference.

And the last thing is just be a kind person. People work with people they like. They do business with people they like. And I just find that kindness for us has just come back in ways I can't explain. Now, when you talk about this-- and it's one of the things when we do some of our trainings, because we also do a lot of sales-related training. I work with a friend of mine who owns a company called the Sales Institute. And what you say is so true. It's one of the things that I always tell people. We are all salespeople. And people buy from people they like. It costs nothing to be nice and to be kind. Now, talking about that, a little business like mine, if I came walking into your company tomorrow with my shoe box full of slips, would I be welcomed with open arms? Absolutely. So we service from the guy who is still thinking of a business idea, who just wants to sit with us for an hour for us to help him ideate and think of the pitfalls that he might not be seeing yet, right up to some listed entity. So with the divisions being Tamane Consulting, Advisor, and Assurance, we're able actually to cater to a multi-fessor type of client. So yes, we still take the shoe box client. We welcome them.

We actually love them the most, because for us, that's our source of inspiration. And that's where the entrepreneurship is. I think that's what I was hoping you would answer. Yeah, so for us, the energy comes from the guys in the shoe boxes, because there's no bigger passion than you'll find in an entrepreneur who's trying their business. Corporate is great. They create jobs. But I think a lot of corporates have become exactly that-- corporatized and lose a sense of entrepreneurship. They've got bureaucracy. And we quite like the guys who stay on the maverick side of the fray and still want to be change makers. And there's nothing more exciting than being in a room with entrepreneurs. And if you have not done that, I encourage all your listeners to spend a week meeting different entrepreneurs and asking them about their goals, their dreams, and where they want to go to. If that doesn't inspire you in one week, I don't know what will, because it's unbelievable. That's why I love doing what I do. When I'm sitting here behind the microphone, it's-- how lucky am I? I get to speak to people like you. I get to meet people like you. And then we get to share this journey, this experience with our listeners.

And to me, it's the most satisfying thing. It's rewarding, eh? Anyway, she should be running out of time. I'm tired of doing this happens. You put in the book there, and I'm going to ask you, let's-- OK, let's do this in a logical sequence. The book is available, All Good Bookshops, online as well. Yeah, so available on Amazon in e-book format, or Kobo, and various websites. I've got a website, SearchingThroughDustbins.com, where I actually sign copies if you buy online, and they get delivered countrywide. But available in every exclusive books, CNAs, countrywide. So I've been very fortunate that the distribution is quite wide. I've been having to do a lot of reading over the last little while, because I've had some amazing people in. But-- and I say this often, but seriously, this is a great book. And if you-- you know what? Even if you are an entrepreneur already, read it, because it'll give you some wake-ups. But if you're thinking about it, if there's that little part of you that talks to you at 2 o'clock in the morning and that says, there's got to be more to life than this. This is the book for you, because, yes, running your own business is amazing. But this gives you not only a roadmap, but it's somebody who's walked the walk and walks the talk.

So get hold of the book. I think it's brilliant. For you personally, Aved, what's next? What is your next? Yeah, so I liken entrepreneurship to a bird that's been in a cage its whole life. And the day that it's released from the cage, it never wants to go back, irrespective of whether the flight plan went wrong. So for me, and I speak for myself, my wife, and my three other business partners, I think we are committed to lifelong entrepreneurship, lifelong learning, and lifelong impact in South Africa, and Africa as a continent. I think we are the most talented people I've got to travel globally. So I don't say this with any ignorance. We have the most talented people in South Africa, and there is no reason why we cannot create global businesses from our home front. And I want to be part of that. And whether that leads me to one day list a company on the JSE, on the NASDAQ, on the LSE, that's going to be part of my journey. And I hope to enjoy the bumps and the ups and the downs, because that all makes the excitement. I look forward to joining you and chatting to you about your business and its evolution. Part two, searching through dustbins on the cards. Listen, you got it in print, so you've said it in the book.

I'll say this. If I do do another book, it'll be called Look What I Found in the Dustbins. Awesome stuff. Abed Tal, thank you so much for joining us here tonight. It's been an absolute pleasure and a privilege. - David, thank you so much. And I hope that the listeners really do just go out there. Not even if they don't buy my book. I think it's so important that people read people's stories and learn something from it. I don't have the blueprint to everything in the book, but I encourage people to start reading books about entrepreneurship and doing more and being active. - Fantastic stuff. My special guest in studio, Abed Tal, searching through dustbins. An authentic account of the birth of a business is the book's name. Thank you so much. You guys have an awesome week. I'll see you again next Monday. Before I go, one last thing. Thank you for listening.