Willem Gous — Entrepreneur, Coach, Public Speaker, Small Business Evangelist

Welcome to it as we do each and every Monday night at this time. It is time for what's involved. My special guest in the studio tonight and I always say this and I always mean it 'cause I've been looking forward to having a chat to him. Willem Hose, welcome. - Good evening. - Hang on, let me turn your microphone on. Those are always one of the best things to do. - Thank you for turning me on. - There you go. It's my pleasure. I was distracted by Al talking about growing his chili bush, so yeah. Anyway, we'll get on to what you're here for, but we said all fair. I said, how am I gonna introduce you? Because you're a consultant, you're a coach, you're a mentor, you're into business development, you're into entrepreneurship. You've got a lot of skills, but primarily at the moment you are focused and very passionate about entrepreneurs, specifically small businesses. - Absolutely, that is my absolute focus because I've been through it. I've been an entrepreneur for 20 years and I had firsthand experience about what works and what doesn't and now I'm using those years of experience to get back and give back to people and say, well, avoid this. Let's cut the time, let's cut the amount of risk and also save you time and money on this.

- Well, let's talk a little bit about who Willem is. I mean, you mentioned now that you've been an entrepreneur for 20 years. Tell me a little bit about Willem. I mean, are you a local lad? Where did you grow up? What did you do? Have you always been into business? - Oh, thanks. I was born and raised in Pretoria of all places and I've been living in Johannesburg now for about 10 years and I love Joburg. It's really, I love the energy. My family still lives in Pretoria and when I go there I tell them, I never wanna live here again because it feels like time is like syrup there. They don't appreciate it when I say that. - I live in Pretoria for exactly that reason as well because it's quiet and it's more relaxed. - But I grew up in an entrepreneurial household. So from the age of standard two or grade four, I would get home from school and I would sold electronic PC boards for my father's business, for pocket money. So I grew up in that environment and my father taught me about business. He always said to me, "Villain, don't just read a book and find something interesting. Read a book and build a business around it." And he showed me that business is truly and actually a platform for self exploration and self development.

He was a double engineer yet he held patents in detonator design in telemetry systems. He was the first guy to manufacture permanent magnets in South Africa and many other accolades. So I saw that to my dad and thought to myself, "Wow, this is amazing." But then my dad also almost destroyed himself through his business. His record was working 72 hours, no sleep. 80 cigarettes a day, coffee and six slices of white bread with a Ramana. - Sounds about right. - And that is one of the main reasons why I do this work because I think entrepreneurs deserve a better deal. I believe entrepreneurs, there's more potential and the current approach to entrepreneurship is not what it's supposed to be. So that is for me a mission and that's why I started The Human Entrepreneur. - And I gotta tell you, it's one of the things, your whole approach is what fascinated me because I'm a businessman. I have, I believe caught the entrepreneurial disease and I've had a couple of businesses. One of those, my ex-wife still runs quite successfully. (laughing) - Well done.

- We make a joke about it but it is one of those things that happens and yet when we were chatting and before you even got here, I mean, we first started chatting on LinkedIn. - Yes. - And you know, we got to talk about this and your approach to business and to what business should be about was so totally different. Caught my attention immediately and first I thought, I mean, make no sense. This is not how it should be done. - Now you sound like my wife. (laughing) - And yet, strangely, when you take some time to look at the things that you're saying and what you're advocating, it starts to make sense and just in our brief discussion earlier on, I'm already kicking myself because I am, again, in that very same trap. I mean, I've had three businesses. All three of them, okay, have literally been started out of, oh crap, I'm in trouble. I need to make money. - Yes. - How do I make money? What do I know? Okay, do that and I've been very successful. I have been not as successful but without exception, you end up working yourself to death and I just accepted that's the way of the entrepreneur. You're saying no. - No, it is not. It shouldn't be that way. I'm not saying you shouldn't work hard.

Hard work is the basics. - Yeah. - I love the millennials. One client said when a millennial comes and says, listen, I work smart, not hard. He says, first work hard and then you work smart but hard work is always the basis. Then on top you can work on that. But the thing is, I'm saying don't sacrifice yourself. Don't sacrifice your love, your life and your family for this because it's not worth it. Businesses come and go but you remain. Your life remains. And I'm thinking the current approach to entrepreneurship is almost like a liming culture. - Oh no, we throw ourselves off the cliff every day. - And it's a, you can brag about it. I work so hard and I sacrifice this and I sacrifice that. And I go like, really? Is that it? Because what I'm completely against is if you look at media, they portray an entrepreneur as this young wolf running around from opportunity to opportunity, sharing a flat with five other guys, eating two minute noodles for six months on end just to make it mean to have everything for his business. And I'm going like, nay nay. Most entrepreneurs aren't like that. Most entrepreneurs are married, they have kids, they have home loans. That's the reality. I can't switch my kids off.

Imagine I go to my teenager and say, listen, you always complain you never have enough friends over not enough social time. I'm taking you out of this private school, putting you in this beautiful public school, you'll have 45 friends in a class, amazing. And I'm gonna take that money, plug it into a business. And if it's successful, there's a one in 10 chance. And by the time, if it's successful, you'll probably be out of the house. So I'll just use that money. How's my daughter gonna react? I'm like, what? No, and I can't do that to my family. And we have to realize that we and entrepreneurs are human beings too. - All right, it's quite a paradigm shift. You'll find out more from my special guest, Willem Haus, when we come back. It is what's involved this Monday night. My special guest in studio this evening, we're turning to Willem Haus. Consultant, coach, mentor, entrepreneur. And one of the first people I've come across that thinks this differently about entrepreneurship. So let's continue. And let's continue unpacking this and talking about this. So you're saying, I mean, I'm sitting on the side going, I've started the business. And you often hear the sages and the gurus go, you should spend more time working on your business than in your business.

And my answer, generally, is there's two of us, okay? If we're working on the business, then we're not working in the business, and the business isn't making money. And you were going and saying that you have this picture of an entrepreneur that's gone faced and living off two-minute noodles, et cetera, et cetera. I spent many years being incredibly proud that I would get up at two in the morning and be at my desk by 3 a.m.

Did it change that much? No, look, for me, it just, for me, I think I'm wired that way. So I work better early in the morning. Fortunately, the rest of the world doesn't. But you've got a different approach. Let's talk more about this. - So, I like and, well, deserve a lot of other speakers and consultants hate it when I get on stage. 'Cause I get on stage and get like, entrepreneurship is the biggest con being sold to millions of people. I call it a con, the biggest lie ever sold because it rarely, if ever, delivers on its promises. They sell entrepreneurship as this tool of upliftment, something that you can use to uplift yourself and your loved ones and even fend for yourself. And in that, we create jobs and we grow the economy and every politician goes like, yes, we need more entrepreneurs. And I'm like, nay, nay, it's not working. Why? Look at the life and working conditions of an entrepreneur. Is it working? No, it's not. Entrepreneurship is slowly destroying entrepreneurs. And when we do that to entrepreneurs, we can't create the jobs and we can't grow the economy. See what they forget to tell you, and this is the big thing, what the books, the speakers and the trainers do not tell you is that entrepreneurship was never, ever designed with you in mind.

It's not they. Look at the business model. Are you there? No, look at the strategy. Are you there? No. And what they do is almost like a relationship. Imagine you go into a relationship and you know what the other person wants, what their needs are and what makes them happy. And you take your time, money and attention, giving everything to them, but never, ever do you tell them what you want. - No, that's not gonna work. - It's a one-sided relationship. One person actually mentioned, but that is the basis of an abusive relationship. Well, how are business owners treated in their business? Almost abusive. And that's the thing is we never turn to our business and say, hi, I'm here. This is what I need. I have a family. I have more. I'm more than just a servant in this. I'm not just a worker. I'm a business owner. I always tell people it's almost like if you see all business owners, if it's Richard Branson or you or me commenting on the work on your business instead of in your business, we all start out as the original building block, that cornerstone in your business. - Yes. - Now think about a red brick wall. As the business grows, so does that red brick wall. But you're the cornerstone.

Your position never changes. - No, in fact, you probably end up doing more and more and more work because-- - Yeah, as that wall grows, the only thing that changes is the stress and pressure placed upon you. - Yes. - Okay, and because your position never changes, you start living the same life year after year after year. And it really becomes hectic. Now the thing is, in order to cope with that demand placed on you, you cut corners. You eat garage pies, I'm sure you've had a few of those. I've had my fair share and then-- - We know about garage pies. - And then your personal relationships turn toxic. You get home and your dog box at you because it doesn't recognize you. - Yeah, yeah. - And I'm saying, nay nay, instead of you being the building block in the business, turn it around. The business is a building block in your life. It's just as much there to serve you as it is the customer. - Okay. See, on the one hand, I like what you're saying. On the other hand, that entrepreneur in me that's been told it is a certain way is going, there's no ways that would work. Never, never, never, never. So tell me why it will work. Because it does, it is appealing. But it scares the hell out of me.

- What scares you out of that? What doesn't make sense to you? - Saying the business being-- - It's there to serve you? - Yeah. - Why aren't you a customer in your business? Why did you create your business? Always ask yourself, why did I start this business? To be in servitude and just give of myself the whole day, every day. Listen, if your business is there to serve customers, it really gives you pleasure, that's fine. But a drowning man can't save anybody else. If you can't look after yourself, you can't look after your customers. - Okay. Good point, good point. - And you are just as much a customer within your business as the customer. - Okay. - And that's why I always tell people, think about, if you look at typical entrepreneurship, if you think of your business as a ship, and the wind in your sails is the size of the market and the profits you can make, typical entrepreneurial thinking tells you, you should as efficiently as possible navigate the wind. Just pop your sails and follow the wind as best as you can. What's gonna happen eventually? If you just jump into a ship and follow the wind, you're gonna hit the rocks eventually. - Well, you're going to end up some way. - Some way, not a harbor.

Chances are good that you're not gonna hit a harbor. You're gonna hit some rocks and you're gonna go down with your ship. And if you're lucky, you'll have a brass band playing a nice song for you while you hang out. And I'm saying, no, that doesn't work. It doesn't work in real life and it doesn't work in the business. What you need is a working relationship. So what I'm proposing is your needs are like a rudder. Now it becomes a co-creational relationship between the business, the business owner and the customer. Because you work with the wind. Sometimes the wind is from the side, sometimes from the front. You know where you're gonna go to, you know where the wind's gonna go to. It might not be in a straight line, but sure as hell you're gonna get there. And that's what you need to do. It's a working relationship between the business, you and your customer. - Okay, makes sense. When we come back, I'd like to talk about where do you then start? Because there's two things. One of the things that you and I are both very passionate about is people wanting to start a business. 'Cause I do believe that that is the future. Specifically in this country. - Absolutely, and we need it faster, but we need to focus on the entrepreneur.

- And I like the idea of not being the slave to your business. But now if you're in there, if you're already in that place, what do you do? We'll talk about that when we come back. My special guest in studio with me this evening, consultant, coach, mentor, business development passion man. It is Willem Gose. It is what's involved this Monday night, my special guest Willem Gose. I often say that sometimes the conversations off air, I think are the kind of conversations we need to have on air. Because just now while the song was playing, we found out that we've got a couple more things in common. Willem is a fire walking instructor. I do the board breaking side of it. So we do that as a team building thing. You've done that as well. - Yes, a lot. - And then you mentioned we started to talk about this whole arrow break thing. But that just sounds scary. So we might have to bring you back to talk about those kind of things. But okay, so before the break, you were saying that it's this partnership that you have to have. It's a triumvirate basically. It's yourself, your business, and your customer. - Yes. - And as I said, the more we talk, the more it's yeah, it makes sense that you should not be a slave to your business.

'Cause I don't think any of us start off a business, go, that's what I wanna do. I wanna work 18 hours a day, seven days a week. I wanna have no social life. I wanna have very little money. Because every time I make anything, then I've gotta worry about expenses and stuff. And I love, this is one of the favorite things. 'Cause I think entrepreneurs, we go, I know what, just to make life interesting, let's have cycles in the business where it's feast or famine. You know, and when it's feast time, then suddenly everything is rosy. But generally, the famine is a little longer than the feast times. - Just that little bit too long. - Just a little bit too long. So what do we do? I mean, how do we fix this? - But David, let's look at this from an employee perspective. A lot of people are being retrained, let's be honest. - Listen, I mean, I've spoken to people about this, and it's one of my passions specifically with this show as well, is we're heading headlong into this. Everybody talks about the fourth industrial revolution as something that is coming. It's not coming, it is here. And it's getting more entrenched. And as a result, no pun intended, more people are getting retrenched. And that's happening.

We're gonna lose hundreds of thousands of jobs in South Africa alone in the next 10 to 15 years. - If you are in the process of being downsized, let me use that word, or thinking of quitting your job because it's looking shaky and then starting, I want you to think about the following, okay? If you go for a job interview, don't you look at where this career is heading to see, okay, this will help me get to where I want to. This will help me provide for my kids' university eventually. We look at that when we do a career.

- Why can't entrepreneurs do that with their businesses? Why should we just go, oh, there's an opportunity. Let me go and chase it. Hang on, stop a little bit and ask yourself, can this opportunity take me to where I want to be? - But what happens, 'cause as you said that, what happens if you are in a business currently and you ask yourself that question and the answer is no. - Oh, good question. I'm so glad you're asking that. Okay, you have a few options. First and foremost, you must go to your business and have that conversation. Just like you do in a relationship that's not working, you sit down and go like, these are my needs. This is what I need you to give me. I'm giving you this, but in return, you need to give me this. If the answer from your business is, I will never be able to do that, you have a few options. Either you can close it down, 'cause why would you be in a relationship that doesn't serve your needs, okay? Or you can innovate it so that it can do that. Or you make peace with it that it can't do that. You still build that business and then build another business on top of that. - 'Cause that is, I mean, I've been thinking about this now and I'm like, I don't actually want to ask that question because I'm scared of what the answer might be.

- I know. - I mean, look, it might be okay. But you used an analogy earlier on about a child starting a business. - Yes. - And I thought, damn, that makes sense. Talk to me about that. - So if you're thinking of starting a business, think about start a business like a child does. So I have a son of nine. When he was six, he came to me and said, listen, I need more Lego. I go like, dude, you have enough Lego to start your own freaking shop. So now I refuse, what I will give you is the skill to make money. Now, if a kid goes and I said, I need money for a game, 600 bucks, he can quickly start the business to get the 600 bucks. Yes? - Yeah, absolutely. - And he knows exactly what to do about that. - Yes. - Okay. What is the success rate of that kid compared to the success rate of an adult? Massively different. The kids are almost always successful in it. - Well, they have no fear of failure. - Well, I agree with that, but also many adults have that. What's the difference between an adult and a kid? The kid knows exactly what he needs to achieve aligned with his needs. The adult has an idea. I want more time. I want more money. The kid goes, I want 600 bucks for a game. Okay? Then it comes, the child tracks it precisely.

The adult simply has an idea. And when the business does not work, so the child goes and starts selling cupcakes in order to make that 600 bucks. Then he goes like, cupcake selling is not working. And he kills the business immediately. Then he starts washing cars. And then he starts mowing the lawn, walking the dogs. He pivots like this. It's not about the business. It's about what he wants to achieve. Well, when you go to an adult, man, they never let go of a business. If I, my biggest mistake was, I held onto a loss-making business for eight years. I lost two and a half million bucks. Always when I speak to crowds, I go like, I lost an Aston Martin. They go like, yay. How many of you would like an Aston Martin? Everybody go like, I lost one. Because I held onto it. A child doesn't hold onto the business. They look at how can I get, use this business to get as quick as possible to meeting my needs. And they know, if they don't serve the customer, it won't work either. So they are acutely aware of the customer needs as well. - Now, before we continue with this, because this is where we're talking about and where you're passionate about. I have asked, and Willem has been very kind, we're gonna give three people, each a complimentary two-hour consultation with you.

All right, so if you're wanting to start a business, if you are currently in a business, you don't know if it's the right way, maybe you are one of those people that have been downsized, okay? What are these PC words we use these days? It's like load shitting. No, we're not loads, it's a power failure. End of story, you know. No, you lost your job. End of story. They decided they were gonna save their own asses. Anyway, now that I've finished being passionate about that, if you are somebody who's thinking of those things, all you need to do to stand a chance of winning your two-hour consultation, and it's well worth it. I mean, this is worth a good couple of thousand rand. - Absolutely. - That we're talking about here. What do they need to do? What are the mechanics if they wanna enter? Now, remember, before you get all excited and you start using the mix WhatsApp and the mix SMS, this is going directly to Willem, who will be in direct contact with you. Okay, so what do they need to do? - Okay, email me what business you're thinking about or have. What do you wanna achieve, and what's standing in your way? - Okay, so email business I have, wanna start what I wanna achieve, what's standing in my way.

- What's standing in your way? - Okay, where do I email that to you? - You email me at info, I-N-F-O. - Yes. - At Willemhost.com. - Oh, there we go. It's Willem, W-I-L-L-E-M-G-O-U-W-S. - No, G-O-U-S, without the Wobble U. - I actually wrote it down without the Wobble U and then I put it in. So W-I-L-L-E-M-G-O-U-S, Willemhost.com. - Or connect with me on LinkedIn and speak to me there as well. You can always find me on LinkedIn as well. I publish a lot. - I am becoming a big fan of LinkedIn for so long. I totally discounted it, I thought that's a place that people go if you're looking for a job. And I was fortunate enough to chat to a gentleman on the show, Matt Clark, from a company called the Virtual Edge. - Yes, absolutely. - And with what they're doing. And then I challenged him and I've had a look. It's amazing what you can do on LinkedIn. - You know, it's business. We talk business. I'm not there to anything else. If I talk to you, you know what's gonna come. - Yeah, you're not gonna see a picture of my cat doing something cute, it's business stuff. - Yeah, and I like it and you can engage in people. I'm talking to an ex-monk in the Netherlands. I'm talking to somebody in the UK who's starting new initiatives there.

I do a lot of webinars for some of the universities to help their alumni move forward because I really want to push this message. David, I can't tell you how tired I am of watching how they're psyching up these entrepreneurs. They're like, come, sacrifice everything and something will happen. One out of 10 entrepreneurs or businesses fail. I'm going, what about nine out of 10 entrepreneurs succeed? And we can make that. - Okay, listen, a couple of, I said I would chat too, but a couple of nice messages has come in. Somebody says, I'm, where's the first one? There we go. See, they're getting ahead of me here. I was forced to start my own design and animation business after being retrenched in 2009. I had no plan or any idea how to run a business. Still don't really have many difficult months and only a few months when I make ends meet. I still couldn't go back and work for someone again, especially at age 49. Love your show. Thank you, Shane. Dude, Shane, you are preaching to the choir here. I mean, it's part of what we do in our businesses is the design, web development and the fancy video stuff. And yeah, you know, I've done this for so many years, I still don't consider myself an expert entrepreneur by any stretch of the imagination.

So that's what Shane says. Shane, maybe it's worth your while. Who else? Somebody else, I don't have a name over here, because I'm in manufacturing. Last year, my staff were not working for me. I'm working for them. The legislation to downsize, layoff, et cetera, can't afford it. All I'm doing is meeting the weekly payroll and getting further into debt. This is not unusual. - No, it's not. - We're not, and they are, they're many, many people. I get sometimes get up in the morning and I go, listen, actually, I don't wanna do this anymore. Just stop the world, I wanna get off. And many, many other people are sitting there. And you're saying, take time, have a look at your business, have a conversation, and if necessary, change entirely what your business does. - Just kill it. - Wow. - We had a chat earlier and I used the relationship analogy. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Where I said, and I ask you, have you ever walked away from a bad relationship? - Oh, hell yes, I got those racked up. - And then I ask you, are you better off because of it? And you said, absolutely. - Absolutely better, yeah, I would never go back. Never. - Okay, and the same goes for a business.

Now you're holding on to the adult. Oh, but it was my baby. Look at the kid, go like, eh, I'll do the next one. Businesses come and go, you remain. Let go of it, it's just a business. - Or look at ways of reinventing it, pivoting, doing-- - That's another thing, but it's about, I like what Dr. John Demartini says, the quality of your life is determined by the quality of your questions. And most of us don't ask quality questions. What can I do in this situation? How can I do this? How this? And start with a good what question. What can I do about this? I like what Robert Kiyosaki wrote in his one book when two guys looked at a Ferrari and one guy said, I can never afford it and the other guy said, how can I afford it? And that's what most entrepreneurs need. The bulk of my clients actually just want somebody to bounce ideas off and go and somebody to question them because it's lonely, David, it is lonely. I've been an entrepreneur for 20 years. And I remember last year I worked with a young black entrepreneur and I shared with him, I said, but a few times in my entrepreneur life, I just called up into a little fetal position and I cried for half an hour. - Yeah, yeah, I don't think as many of us that haven't done that.

- And we were sitting in an open space and he looked me in the eye and said, that was me yesterday and he started crying again. And over an eight week period, that guy's life changed when he started realizing, hang on, this thing is here to serve me as well. I can do things differently. And it's simply about asking questions and letting go of the business and seeing yourself. Remember, without customers, your business won't run. Without you, it will not exist. - Yeah, yeah. - So start with yourself first. You are the main driver in this. No pun intended, you will be. But if you wanna start working on your business, you need to figure out first and foremost what it must give you. Most of us don't know what this business should give me. If I had to ask you now, David, what should your business give you? - I would, honestly, I could probably, because this is the business, this broadcast, I could probably make something up. But honestly, I don't know. - No. - Honestly, I haven't thought that far. - When I sit with business owners, I do free life design events quite often. And I ask them, what do you want? Oh, I want more customers. No, what do you want? I want more profit. No, what do you want?

And by the seventh or eighth time, what do you mean? What do you want? And then they go, I never thought about that. But we know what we want in a relationship. We know what we want in a career. Come on, let's do that in a business as well.

- Sina, we're hitting a nerve here because I've just got you, thanks guys, to walk away, get divorced, it's like you're giving up. Customers will think you're a failure. That's my biggest thing. My biggest thing is that fear of failure, okay? And then just behind that, I've had very healthy fear of success as well, just to balance things out. But he goes, there must always be another way to reinvent the business. If you can dance, if I can downsize, I can rebuild and then start to prosper. It's Philip in Orange Grove. - Thank you for that, Philip, and I appreciate it, but what's wrong if you fail? What will your customers think? You know what they're gonna do? You're gonna walk to the next guy who provides the same service. A customer doesn't lose a minute of sleep if you're not there tomorrow. They'll just go to another provider. - This is true. And you know what I did? One here. I started a business. When I started this business, I started calling it Freedom Through Business, and people said you can't have that. And every week, I would try a new customer segment. And this is about four years ago. And I would go, oh, if you are a single mom, do this, this, this. And the next week, I would go, that was completely wrong.

Now, if you're a student and a school leaver and everything, and the week thereafter, I will change it, change it, I would pivot like completely 180 degrees over a four or five week period. I did it every week. Not one person raised an eyebrow and said, "Hey, you're a fake." Not one person. See, it's our perception. Look how you becoming a hostage of what?

Somebody else's opinion? - No, you're absolutely right. I mean, I had this thing where, in terms of LinkedIn and your profile and what you tell people you do, I'm like, okay, and they go, no, no, you gotta focus. And I'm like, but that's not what I always wanna do. And then I'm like, well then, change it. And I'm like, no, but I've now told everybody this is what I do. And they're like, well, so what? He says you can't change it. - I told everybody in front of 120 people, I'm gonna marry this person. I divorced them, and now the happiest person you're telling everybody, I divorced them. - Yeah, yeah. - Divorce your business. If it's not working, stop it. If it's hurting you, stop it. Think of your life. Think of your loved ones. Think of your kids. It's better for you and better for them. Just start again. I know a lot of people are gonna go, but I've invested so much. What are you gonna do? Another six months, another six months? That's why when you apply this thinking, it reduces your cost of failure, 'cause that's the biggest thing we need to do, is when you bring your full financial needs into the business from the beginning, you're going like, okay, this kite might not fly from the beginning.

Maybe I shouldn't start this business. - Yeah. - See, but what we do is we take ourselves out of the picture. Oh, I can give it another six months. And then you burn another six months of overheads, and you're like, wow, okay, I only lost 10 million. - Yeah. - Five million. - And if you start with yourself, then you can have that conversation and see and plan and strategize. I had a conversation with a customer once just to take a two-week holiday with his family to save for their studies and save a little bit for their retirement, their two business partners. I had to grow the business by 27 million turnover per annum. I was standing at 35. But at least now we can have the conversation. Now it is a conversation based in what? Reality. Because, lo and behold, hope is not a strategy boot. Never was, never will be. And to say, I hope one day my business will give this to me, mm-mm, it's not gonna happen. - Fascinating stuff. Some more messages coming in. Nice show, guys. I'm 51 years old. I went into my own IT business almost 20 years ago. In 2016, I abandoned that business and partnered up with another business owner who had a very similar business to mine for also almost the same amount of time.

In fact, it was almost a mirror of my own business. We basically reworked the entire business model and now it's finally working after 20 years. Hard work, but well worth it. Even though we just had a large customer unethically give us a notice of termination. Don't even talk to me about that, dude. This customers and ethics and-- - It's a very new relationship. - You know what, ethics and morals these days are something of the past. Anyway, and we'll still be okay and forge ahead. It comes from David Kuzna in Linden. Well done, David. 51, you're still a youngster, mate. Our local pharmacy struggled a long time to keep pace with the franchises. They developed a philosophy of making every customer member of the family. Now, they are very successful. So that's from Kevin. You see, please put the gentleman details on Facebook, Losing Mix's broadcast range, please. Thanks, Jacques. Jacques, I'll do better than that. I'll actually answer you right here on this goody thingy technology that I have in front of me. We're out of time. Billim, we're out of time, man. - Thank you for your time and thank you for giving me the opportunity, but really just start with yourself. Please start with yourself.

You do that when you go into a career. You do that when you apply. - Okay, so I'm listening now. I'm one of the listeners to the show. I'm listening now and I'm thinking, okay. I wanna enter. So if I enter, it's info@willimchose.com.

Tell them what your business is, what you're thinking about and-- - What's standing in your way. - What's standing in your way. - I just wanna help you. - Willim will then give you, if you're one of the lucky three, you'll get a free two-hour consultation. But that's not all because you've mentioned now, if somebody connects with you on LinkedIn, connect with me on LinkedIn. Guys, if you're listening and there's anything that you hear on any of the shows, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Facebook, I'm all over the place. The website is whatsinvolved.co.za. Get ahold of me. I'm more than happy to put you in touch with any of the guys or give you some advice that I can give 'cause that, and I now make a point. There's a friend of mine who owns a company called the Sales Institute. So he does a lot of work there. He's based in Cape Town. I now make a point of giving her a call every Monday morning. And it's like a Monday kind of, how's it, how you doing? What's happening? What are the plans for the, because of that very fact of how lonely it can get. 'Cause there's times you sit there and you're thinking it's just you. And it's not. So hang out. Come join us on LinkedIn and have a chat to us. Philim House is there.

Somebody says, "Please put that in." Okay, I'm going to put it on right over here. And I wish you all the best. Philim, we'd like to hear back from you. If you do connect with Philim, I'd like to hear about it as well. Just a reminder that each and every one of these episodes of what's involved are available as a podcast as well. You can download it on any of those platforms there. I'll show many at the moment. Spotify, we're on there. We're on Apple iTunes, Apple Podcasts. You can get it there. Or you can get it directly from our website, which is what's involved. W-A-T-T-S involved. I-N-V-O-L-V-E-D dot C-O dot Z-A. Get all to me there. And let's connect. Let's hang out. And let's see if we can get all this entrepreneurial spirit built up and flourishing. - Absolutely. Let's turn South Africa around. - Philim, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate you coming in. - Thank you for having me in. Thank you for giving me the time to talk to your listeners. - It's been an absolute pleasure. And unfortunately, I was hoping to talk to our internet marketing guru from the UK tonight, Andy Brocklehurst. And unfortunately, at the last moment, Andy had a bit of a problem. So we're gonna be chatting to him next Monday night.

So some info coming your way there on the interwebs and what business is about over there. Until then, have yourselves a fantastic week ahead. And one last thing before I go. Thank you for listening.