Tim Keys — The New World Of Selling

We're back with what's involved, and my guest right now is speaking to CEO and founder of the Sales Institute, Mr Tim Keyes, how are you Tim? Good evening Dave, great to be here. Nice to have, the last time I actually had you on air was, sure, two years ago, was it? About then? Yeah. At that time, things have changed dramatically in our world, in the world of sales. The question that I was asked the other day, which is one of the reasons I want you on air with me tonight, is, so surely sales is just for sales people. To be in sales, only sales people sell. Not at all. So I was very interested in listening to the conversation that you've just had about how do you make money. And one of the things that I've always felt is that no organization is out there to make you rich. And so, you know, relying on somebody else to pay you a salary, to be able to generate the kind of revenue you're looking for, you know, you often won't get that from a traditional business. And so one of the things that I look at is if you're running your own business, you know, you need to be able to sell your products. And what I find, I've worked with a lot of people who create these brilliant products, or they're really good at plumbing, for example.

And they think, well, if I start my own business, they'll pay me directly, but they don't know how to sell themselves. And they don't know how to sell their products. So to me, that's a big part of it if you're running your own business. The second thing is I believe you're selling yourself all of the time. You know, you're having to persuade people and influence people every single day. Well, yeah, I mean, think about it. From the time you wake up, whether it be your partner, your spouse, maybe if you've got children, you know, get them to do a couple of things each other. It's all about how do you persuade? How do you, you know, you're constantly negotiating. You need to get your own way. Sometimes you need to learn how to compromise. Sometimes you have people who work for you and you have to persuade them. You know, all of this is about, if you look at what sales really is, is A, it's about understanding human behavior and how you can get a win-win situation. And B, it's about how do you communicate what you need and to give people what they want so that they are quite comfortable making that decision. And in the process, adding massive value, would you not say? Well, that's where we were talking about with the topic tonight about how sales has changed.

Because it has, hey? It has. And I'll tell you the issue is if you look at the history of sales, effectively all these courses that people tend to attend, they come out of a fight that happened 20 years ago. There were a couple of guys who worked for Xerox and they disagreed on how to sell. And as part of the fight, they all left Xerox and started sales training companies. And so the Miller-Hymans and solution selling and, you know, complex sale and spin selling all came out of a historical 1990s kind of thinking. And 2008, as you know, the whole world changed. Not just the economy, but, you know, the explosion of mobile devices and things like that. So the things that these methods used to teach have changed totally in how we communicate what we expect from people, what we want. So the one thing we don't want is to be manipulated. We don't want people trying to sell us things we don't want. I'm not going to mention which one of the cell phone providers but I've literally, since I've been sitting here, seen my phone go off three times from the same contact center trying to sell me something I don't need. And that's the problem. We've become irritated with traditional sales techniques.

But this is the same and I read some very interesting data the other day. Sales techniques, yes, call centers, definitely. And even to the point of advertising, things that used to work a few years ago where guys would say to you, you know, email marketing, you know, you've got to send out your emails and you know, this is where you tell them and you send out an email and that has changed. And the landscape is very, very different. And very few companies that I've come across in South Africa have actually changed with the times and with the methodologies that they teach the salespeople, their staff in general. Am I correct in assuming you work with big corporates all the time? In fact, I was kicked out of a corporate the other day. Are you sure you weren't there with me? It sounds like the kind of thing that happened to me. What happened was I keep talking about how things have changed and how research is literally disproving methods that we're using. So the example I use, again, I won't mention the guy's name, but there's a very well-known sales writer author who a lot of people have used over the years who I read a book the other day is refuting his own theories saying that this would have worked prior to 2008.

Those same theories don't work anymore. For example, phoning people a whole lot of times a day does not get them to sell. Being persistent does not generate sales because that was a very, very big thing. You know, you've got to do this, you've got to keep on, keep on, keep on. Yeah. And that's how I got thrown out because I was saying you need to adapt. The research that I based all of my training on is 100,000 interviews later. So it can't be wrong. There's no way 100,000 people have got this wrong. And the research is based on what customers are asking for. And so in this, I mentioned to this group that you need to be careful of using age old methods and I mentioned a certain person, the sales manager had the last week been teaching on that book. That's why I got thrown out, but I'll still stick to my theory or the research says customers are looking for something different now. But I mean, this is, this is something everybody says that this is revolutionary, but I mean the whole concept of turning around and saying to a customer, what would you like? How would you like your buying experience to be when you're looking for whatever it is you may be? And the sad part is we've seen, and you've mentioned this as well, that you've trained some international companies that are based here.

They've got a couple of, you know, they've got branches here in South Africa. These are the guys that are forward thinking enough to have employed you and your team and the training methods that they use to give them that edge over South African companies. And you know, it's sad that so many people are not prepared to look because is it not just the way I think about it is I go, how would I like to be treated as a customer? Agreed. And ultimately what it comes down to is science has changed everything. So you know, apart from the research that I referred to, the other thing is I'm a big fan of neuro, they call it neuro economics, where they now literally put this fancy thing on your head and measure brain patterns and energy levels and blood flow and stuff. My kind of stuff. Exactly. And what it proves is that buying decisions are made at a terribly primal place that we think we so terribly logical. But so much of what we do is based on primal needs, primal drivers. And when they map out the brain, when you're asked to make a buying decision, the areas of the brain that that literally light up is an area called the amygdala, which is the furthest places further you know, the furthest part of your brain from your logical brain from your prefrontal cortex, sometimes called the monkey mind or the reptile brain.

And that that's what's making all of the decisions. So sales is all about do I trust you? Is there a connection between us? Do I believe you have my interest at heart? And are you taking my needs into account? I'm going to put you on the spot now because I know what the fourth one is. So what is the fourth one? What is the fourth one? The need thing. Can I? Are you potentially? He's actually getting older. He's not going to answer this one. I've put it on the phone. Are you the kind of person that looks like you're genetically okay to have my babies? You know what? I don't say that. Let me tell you why I get into trouble. I was accused of all sorts of biases and prejudices when I said this. So what the research says, do you mind if I say it the way we do it in the training? No, please do. Okay. I would encourage that. You know, we take no prisoners here. So when I meet you for the first time, I say to you it's very primal. So remember, we've been on this earth for hundreds of thousands of years, depending on, you know, it doesn't even matter who you believe creation or evolution, we've been here for a while. The fact is that we've only been modernized for the last few years, you know, like 300 odd years.

So we still have a lot of the primal drivers inside of us. So when I meet you, I ask myself three questions. Number one, are you going to hurt me? Yeah. Am I safe? Yeah. Number two, can I eat you? Yes. Which means, is there food available? Can we work together to create a joint outcome? Yeah. And then the third one is, can you have my babies? Yeah. Which is, I need to be part of a tribe in order to be safe. I always say my happy feet, little penguin in the middle. And I also need a Gloria or however you interpret who you'd like to spend your life with. Because that need to be connected with someone else is a deep primal driver. And this is a personal belief that even procreating and having children is an incredibly primal driver. And I just, look, full disclosure, okay, I'm going to be, you know, Tim owns the Sales Institute. I do do work with Tim, which is one of the reasons I brought him in here. His side is sales and everything. My side is more because of the neuro-inguistic programming. My side is more about the persuasion aspect of it, persuasive communication, persuasive selling. I also tend to be a bit more direct. So Tim's the diplomat, so he's just explained it to you. If you're wondering about these primal drivers, the way I normally explain it in a training, it's the three Fs, fight, flight, or yeah, you got it.

Okay, good. So, but they are, I mean, and they've measured these very primal drivers, but then we do our research, do we not, based on our prefrontal cortex? Yes. Now that's the issue. So the, we work in terms of layers. Yeah. So in terms of how you engage with a person, you think about a relationship. It starts with getting to understand the person first. So if I really like someone, I make sure that I do what they like. I take them to places they like. I need to research that. I need to make sure there's a sameness. I need them to be attracted to me. So the research that I do has to make sure that I connect with them. The second thing is I need to know what their deep drivers are. So what do they really need? So you know, there's that lovely saying people don't need a drill and you know, hole in the wall. And if you understand what they really need, you can talk to those drivers. And most people are more worried about what they want to avoid. So it's not that we want to be thin, we don't want to be fat. So this is back to something again from the field of neuro-linguistic programming and neuroscience. We're doing things we either moving towards pleasure or away from pain. And the research says we spend most of our time running away from pain.

So it sounds a little bit negative, you'd focus on the negative areas. But you listened to those conversations earlier, you know, I mean, deep debt, what do I do? You know, I used to earn this great amount of money, but now I'm struggling to clear out of the debt trap. I can barely afford to send my kids to school. These are what we worry about and are concerned about. So in sales, I need to tap into those concerns. Then I have to make you feel like I can be trusted, that I can help you resolve what you need to have resolved. But this also is where it comes in on an incredibly primal basis, because we make that decision based on so many different factors. But the one thing is that each and every one of us, and I firmly believe this, have built interest is a BS detector. So if you get the traditional sort of thing about the secondhand car salesman, you know, with the wheelie stick back here, you know, if somebody is trying to pull the wheel over your eyes, and if they try to give you the slick sale speech and that you pick up on. Yeah, and you know, we have a saying with the training that we do, which is give stuff away, then give away some more stuff until they're trying to figure out why you're giving away so much.

And then when they feel like you've given them too much, then you ask for something. Because it generates where we call it the law of reciprocity, is that I call it the law of the bride. If I come to your house and you cook me a lovely meal, as I'm leaving the I'm thinking I better invite you otherwise it's going to get weird. So we respond when people give to us unconditionally. We also love unexpected surprises. Yes. So what I think sales. Well, yes, you do love an unexpected surprise unless you're in a prison cell, then it's a bit dodgy anyway, I digress. But the thing is when when you give something to me unconditionally, or you adding value to my life, or you teaching me something I didn't know, because we teach people to drive things through insight, teach me something about my business I didn't know, provide me with something that will make me hopeful. Now if you do that for me, I then start feeling like I actually owe you, plus the trust barriers come down. That bullshit detector is very real, we have literally in our brain, this thing called an amygdala. And its only job is to make you feel safe, keep you safe. So we will make decisions the minute I look at you, you don't even know you're doing it the tone of your voice, your body language, the way you approach me, I mean, we teach people in retail, where you know that person who comes to you and says, Can I help you?

Hello, can I help you? You know why we say no? Yeah, because they've walked straight into my face right at me, and I see that as a threat. And watch what happens, you will see men and women to a certain extent, they'll either become submissive, so they'll make their body small, or they'll peacock out, they'll make themselves really big. It's primal. So you come to me, and you say, Can I help you? You immediately say no, you say you're in my space. No, you can't. You walk a little bit to the left of them. Look at them, smile at them and say, is there anything I can do to help you? And that smile, the warmth, the unthreatening body language, non-threatening body language, suddenly they'll want to talk to you. We're going to talk about this a little bit more going forward, because it is a fascinating, this ecology of sales and the fact that, as I said, I believe, and so does Tim, that everybody is in sales all of the time, and you can always learn from it. We'll be talking about that. And I want us to move on to a little bit about where we're going with this full industrial revolution, because people are not learning the way they're used to, and sales, they're not learning sales the way they're used to.

We'll be back. It is What's Involved, Mix 93.8. David Watts on Mix 93.8. My guest in studio tonight, what's involved it is. We're talking to founder and CEO of the Sales Institute, Tim Keyes. We're talking about sales. We're talking about the new sales methodologies. Where are we going? Why are we going? How are you doing? So it has changed a lot, and I think one of the reasons, now correct me if I'm wrong, one of the reasons that this whole game of selling has changed so much, because sales people are now no longer used to be in the old days if you couldn't get a real job, become a salesperson. But it's now a profession and professional people get paid a lot of money, but they earn a lot because they work for it. The secret with sales is it's high risk high reward. So when people say, how do I get out of my current financial situation? The thing about sales, if you look at how we recommend you generate a sales salary is typically we say, you pay a salesperson 80% of what you would normally earn. So a typical job, they would earn 100%, you pay the salesperson 80%, the commission would go up to 120%. So in other words, they would get that additional 40% as part of their commission. So really they're earning more than you ever could.

And then if they make 100% of their target, you start building in kickers. So the more you bring in, the more money you earn. So people can easily earn over 100,000 or any commissions I've seen it, you know, huge amounts of cash. Yeah. And it depends on what what what industry you're because I mean, sometimes over 100,000 ran his pocket change to some of the guys that are doing it, but they are specialists in their field. Yeah. And and it does take learning and which is keeps us in money, the depending on the role you have, what we've noticed is before they were very specific courses. So very generic, actually, you know, come on a professional selling course two days with each other to sell. I have about I think I worked at 12 different courses that I make available from if you're inside sales and you're in a contact center to you're an account manager to you have to bring in new business to your account manager to your channel account manager. There's so many specialized roles now that there's no way you can continue to wing it. There's just so much you have to learn about business, about communication, about how to, you know, write good emails, for example, which people don't do. If you look at the most with one of the biggest changes, people don't like being phoned anymore.

We really don't like calls. We want emails. One thing that's growing big in sales at the moment, believe it or not, is WhatsApp. People would prefer you WhatsApp them. I actually saw some research that said it is going that way. I'm very old fashioned in that sense. I prefer to do the talking, but, and I said earlier, and it might sound like I'm contradicting myself, but emails, open rates are going down. However, if you are able to write a good persuasive email and you spend time on it, and this is the thing that people forget, spend time on it, spend time on the words, and we've spent a lot of time working out those parts of the training, then, yeah, then you can get it. Now, when we talk about training, if I talk about you and your business, one of the things that if you got a generic sales company that they'll offer you the one day or the two day course or whatever, and it's one size fits all. I've noticed what you do, though, is you actually say to prospective clients or whatever, why, what are you looking, and you actually go and then research them, and you will, if necessary, create a bespoke training course just for them. Yeah, so the reason for that is generic training. It's just people can't translate it fast enough.

So if you think about, if I teach you, for example, how to write a script or a value proposition or how to do a proposal, for you to then work out exactly how to word that and put it together, would take another whole lot of time, which you don't have. So what customers are starting to ask us, so the reason I'm in Johannesburg this week, I'm working with an institution that does distance learning, and the training only happens in three weeks' time. The reason I'm here is I'm spending the entire week understanding their business, building out what we call a sales guide, which is step-by-step hard to do the sales, giving them word-for-word on some of the language they should be using, helping them with the emails they're sending, helping them with the questions they should be asking, how they communicate value. So we literally build that out up front, and I'm finding more and more in my work that customers are saying, "Please, you've got to help me here." It's just taking too long to build this ourselves, and that's the one part of it. The second one is that people want a very customized message. So when you look at what top-performing salespeople are doing, number one, they teach me things I didn't know.

Yeah. So I need to be able to build that collateral, you know, what e-books, what videos, anything I can share, like what we're doing now, podcasting or radio shows, anything that's helpful. I need to be able to generate that. Then I need to be able to tailor my solution to their needs, which means that I need to be able to customize according to what they need. So in this case, literally, if I want this course, how do I communicate that? And then the last part is, how do I get them to come to a very comfortable close, which is a whole other conversation is, how do we get people to commit? Because, you know, I had this case the other day, I was looking for finance, and somehow people got my phone number. And for three days, I've been inundated, people trying to sell me insurances and add-ons and things like that. I'm very desperate. They reckon that Facebook is listening all the time, Facebook and Google. I wouldn't be surprised. So they just know, and then they like give stuff out. But you're talking about this, but I mean, you make this even simpler, it's teach, what is it? Teach, tailor, take control, the three T's. The three T's. Because you had the three F's, we've got the three T's.

Yeah. Mine are funnier though. Somebody goes, "Hello, gents, I use the age-old fab analysis." Now, this is an interesting one. Yes. Because I've done this before. I've done pictures and benefits. Yes. Pick one feature, show two advantages, show three benefits, you'll sell every time. That's Philip in Orange Grove. Philip, am I going to be the usual diver and go, "No, Philip, you won't." Because you know what? It also depends on the person, but the way things are moving, it's not. People don't want you to. It's not the old days like when I started out selling with my little flip folder, and I used to show people all the pretty pictures and go, "What color would you like it in? Do you want it delivered in pink or white on Wednesday or Thursday?" This was Philip who made that statement. Yeah. Philip, you're absolutely right if you're starting at 50% of your sales cycle. In other words, features, advantages, and benefits. Talk to something that we describe as needs, wants, and fears. I agree with you 100%. What the research is showing, though, that there's an element before it. What used to happen is, let me sit down and listen to your needs, I'll give you a solution. Now what it is, is let me understand or be clear on how I deliver value.

I then need to understand what is it that you really need, what is it that you really want and what are you concerned about. We call that selling too, which means that if I understand your deep drivers and your needs and your concerns and all of those things, what we call pain points, I can then take that and then map out the features, advantages, and benefits that talk to that. I think a lot of sales people don't start early enough understanding the person, though. If you do enough work understanding them first and tapping into what they really need, then your features, advantages, and benefits works 100%. I was just thinking now, because I digress sometimes, even in my own head, that some of the conversations that we've had along this selling thing, because Timothy is passionate about sales and the process. I'm passionate about the communication side, and he goes, "But it's sales," and I go, "No, but it's communication." He goes, "It's a salesperson." I go, "But if you buy from people you like and if you understand, it's the same thing." Jay, just got another one in here that says, "I like the new two," oh, that's nice. This is a nice one. I'm going to read this on air, and don't think I read all of them on air, and then I'm generally rude about it.

"I like the new two-hour show." Nice to hear two one-hour sessions, Nick. Thank you, Nick. Much appreciated. I'm going to do a bit of a break now. If you are interested at all in neuroscience and all things neuro, there's a gentleman by the name of Dr. Dawson Church, who's also very big in the EFT, or Emotional Freedom Technique Arena. He is based in the United States, and I am going to be interviewing him on the 3rd of June, Mr. Keys. As far as I know, the first radio interview is ever done in South Africa. As far as I know, I stand to correction, but Dawson Church will be live. We'll be talking his books, "The Genie in Your Genes," and something called "Mind to Matter." It's going to be fascinating. I Live My Life by Mind to Matter. It's the best book I've ever read. For a salesperson, great, but you see now, this is where we're getting to because I want to take it back, because we're talking to Lawrence earlier. When we come back, let's talk about everyday people, not necessarily people who are involved in selling a product as a profession. Let's talk about that and talk about how we can implement that ourselves, because we're going to talk about this fourth industrial revolution that's happening.

Things are going online. How are we going to adjust to that? How are we going to fit in? We'll talk about that when we come back. My guest in studio is Tim Keyes, founder and CEO of the Sales Institute. We're back, Tim Keyes from the Sales Institute, founder and CEO of the Sales Institute. We're talking about now, which I want to get across to people, because there's a bunch of people listening now that are going, "Yeah, I did. You're not talking to me because I'm not in the sales business." We take exception to that, because you and I both believe that we're all in the business of selling all of the time. Let's talk about sales for non-sales people, businesses. What we were talking about earlier with Lawrence in the studio here about the starting your own business, or as it is sometimes being called, your side hustle. I'm so chuffed I learned that, because I feel like I'm connected to the youth now, because I can get side hustle. I like that side hustle. Yo, man. I'm going to write a course called Side Hustle. Sidehustles.com. Talk to me about that though, because there must be something. A lot of what I do is coaching. The first rule of coaching is you need to take personal responsibility for your life, that it's not helpful and it doesn't mean you haven't had a bad life.

It just means it's not helpful languishing in what happened in the past. The only thing you can do is make better choices from now. When people are saying, at times he's tough and the economy is like I heard earlier, this isn't going to happen in a down economy and how must I save money. A lot of people blame the government. This country is going to hand in a hand basket, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It's not going to help. The point here is what are you determined to do? A, if you're looking at generating additional revenue, you need to hustle. Again, having three jobs won't help. It's figuring out how you get residual income. How can I build a business that other people will be comfortable paying for where I don't have to do too much of the work? I want to give you a great example. I'm a hockey coach. I love hockey. There's a friend of mine who's, all she did was because she's a really good coach, she built an online series of lessons related to skills in hockey, game management, making good decisions, how you keep your confidence up, all of those good things. She's put that online and she's making more money through that than she is as a school teacher. But that's her job. Her job is a school teacher.

She's a school teacher, but she's making money out of the additional work. That the hockey coaching videos or whatever was her passion, and I think this is what we're talking about because the most important thing, if you're going to do anything, and this is why we're talking about sales for non-sales people, you have to have a compelling vision of your future, something that propels you towards, something that'll make you even through the toughest times. Very often people say the definition of success is if you keep hanging on long after everybody else has let go, but keep plodding away at it. We've had this discussion and we've touched on that. This friend of yours that you were talking about, I've seen several instances where people have taken some of the strangest things, and I'll be honest, I'll tell you, you know the story. I've made many selling balloon animals. I've made balloon animals and sold them before. It's not something you can necessarily do online, however, you can teach people online how to make balloon animals. This is where it's got to be like a little bit of a passion project and you've got to be committed to doing that. That's something I think is absolutely amazing.

As a small business owner, or potential small business owner, micropreneur, I think is the latest buzzword, would you say studying sales and the sales technique is important? It has to be because you find so many people say, "I'm going to go run a business," great example using Facebook. You think, "Oh, I'm on Facebook. People are going to buy." No, they don't. We learned that the hard way. Exactly right. The use of social media, posting things on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and using LinkedIn doesn't necessarily lead to a sale. You need to know how to communicate to people. One thing that I'm starting to learn is that we can't use old communication techniques. I got a fright the other day with my website where I wrote a lot of that copy which I was very proud of. Then I had a look at the average age looking at my website is 25 to 34. Young millennials are looking at my site for guidance and I'm not giving it. You've written in a more state language, would you say? Yeah. I want people to figure out ... I mean, this is my justification for my new Wowie P30 but I love the camera on this thing. What I've got to get comfortable with is doing very quick short shop videos where I can help people grow their sales.

You and I both have millennials in the house and both of them have said to us when we said, "How do you learn? What interests you? What fascinates you?" Both of them came back with the same answer, podcasts and instructional videos. That's it. Because we don't have a long attention span, shiny objects into 10 minutes or so. That's where you need to go. Agreed. My 22-year-old watches two specific podcasts, the ones on personal development and the other ones on running a business. He's already thinking entrepreneurially, watching 10-minute segments where somebody he knows has been successful is giving him advice in his language and he's spellbound for the 10 minutes. Then no longer than 10 minutes, he loses focus. The answer to your question is, yes, people need to be taught how to sell. The communication part, I know because we do a lot of this, we stress it, but I can't stress it enough. There's language that you use that can either stop a sale from happening or encouraging people to want to sell. Let me give you an example, putting the word "don't" in front of a sentence. That's what we call an embedded command. For example, if your kid is running down the road and you say, "Don't you going to fall?" What happens?

You're going to fall. Bang. That's what they remember. When we say, "Don't fall," same thing happens. People don't understand it. They hear that command. If you change it to, "You are going to experience the most incredible thing having this product." When you have it, this is going to happen to you. You will get these benefits. People then buy into it, telling them they're doing the right thing. For example, saying, "Does this make sense to you? Would it make sense for you, too? Are you comfortable with this?" Using language is so profound. People need to learn the power of persuasive communication. It's not just in the sales world. If you're finding you triggering people and they're getting cross with you and your kids don't understand you and your husband's throwing temper tantrums, there's a good chance that it's something you're doing. It's the language you use. It's tone. It's the pitch. Here's a very good question. "Please excuse my ignorance, but is a podcast only audio or is it visual now?" That's from Chris. Chris, actually both. Podcasts have evolved. I think of What Springs to Mind now, any of the really big podcasters out there like the Joe Rogan show, London Real, those are now audio-visual.

The vast majority still are just audio, purely because of the convenience of audio. You can download it, listen anywhere you like. Listen in the car while you're at the gym, whatever the case may be, although the bigger ones are starting to give you both formats now. It's something we've been toying with and then we've been thinking about, so yeah, good onset. Now we're running out of time again. Advice now, because I'm going to say from my side, the best advice I was ever given, I probably can't repeat on radio, but is invest in yourself, no matter what it takes. You and I are both of that very weird bent. I'm almost convinced I've been there, but if there was a choice between food and a book or something to learn, we would both go for something to learn or the book. It's like anything else. It's a habit that you can develop. It scares me that so many people are like, "Oh, no, I don't want to read. I don't like reading. I don't want to do that." If you don't invest in yourself, in your own learning, and you can find out all of this stuff, at least the basics. We both say, "Which download server do you use? Do you use a book service which you read a lot from?" Amazon is one. Me too.

Safari Books Online. Safari Books Online is another one. There's a couple of these subscription services. You can also get a little app called Blinkist, where they condense books into what they call blinks, but invest in yourself. Continuous lifelong learning. It's a passion. Now, we were deciding, and one of the things Tim and I like to do is put our money where our mouths are. We were chatting about fourth industrial revolution. This is the way the world's going. We as Tim and Dave trainers, either together or in our own right, may one day very soon become obsolete because technology will overtake us. We are putting our money where our mouths are. Talk to me about that from your side of what we're doing because we've both put in an awful lot of work to this stage. This is what Lawrence is talking about, trying to build that residual income because we haven't had return as yet, partly because of our own fault because we're perfectionists. You've got to build something. Speak to me on that. We still run our traditional training, but I did a project a couple of years ago for an online learning platform around how to sell motor vehicles. We thought this would be a great place to start where we can test this method of very short, sharp articles.

The articles that I wrote, they're 25 modules, and they're about three or four pages long with some recommendations at the end, and then you've turned those into recordings MP3s. That we've already done, which we're currently busy launching. Everybody who's looking at or sells motor vehicles, this is a great course for you. There's great advice in there, by the way, on selling anything in retail, not just cars. Now, I was actually telling somebody about this the other day. If we were to go and do that training in person, that would be a three-day training easily. The amount of money that we would charge for us to be there in person compared to what you're going to pay for it online, and that's where this economies of scale kicks in, because it's making this kind of stuff so much more available. I mean, we're going, we decided, what, $480, I don't know, how much? $480,000? $480,000, yeah. For that entire course. You get that, you download it, that's wonderful, and we're going to be following it up because we believe so strongly in this with persuasive communication. Yeah, so this is the big project, and the best part of this is I'm currently on a project that allows me the time to write this material.

One of the things they're looking for is the recording, so we'll be able to build very quickly because we've got most of this content, it's just a matter of sitting down, is how do we persuade people? It's not just sales. We're going to be looking at how do you influence, because I believe influence is the highest form of persuasion. When you can get people to move in a certain direction because of who you are, then you know you're very successful, so that's the next series that we're working on. We're hoping to have it done by the end of May. End of May? Yes. April, now? End of May. One month, eh? Yeah. So we're going to launch, which is launching first, Tim? The motor vehicles will be in the next two weeks, and the persuasive communication will be by the end of the month. All right, we've just given both of ourselves a whole lot of work. Which is why we've done this. If you'd like to find out anything about sales and about whether you want to do some courses, get advice. Timothy's very approachable. He has agreed that as part of him giving back for being on this show, we can give out your direct email address. People can email you. Any questions regarding sales? What is that email address?

Tim K T I M K at sales Institute dot CEO dot Z day there we go and if you'd like to get hold of me any questions any guests anything you'd like to know any feedback on the show it's David at what's involved at dot CEO dot Z day podcasts will be up there within this week as well is a really a bunch that you can go and check out its W A T T S I N V O L V E D dot CEO dot Z day until next week have yourselves a great one thank you so much for this David Watts on mix 93.8