Nicky Rowbotham — Entrepreneur, Businesswoman, Healer, Found Her Flow

And once again, it is what's involved. As always, great to have you along with us. I got another fantastic guest lined up for you. And hopefully this guest is gonna be able to answer some questions about flow and finding flow and what on earth flow is. Who am I talking about? I am talking about the author of "7 Steps to Finding Flow." Flip the script on stress, it's Nikki Robotham. Hello, Nikki, how are you? Very good in yourself, David. I am exceptionally well this morning for a number of reasons. And one of those is that I have a little Staffordshire terrier and she's about seven or eight months old and she disappeared yesterday and we were in absolute fits and it was horrible. And this morning when we opened the door, there she was back. So I am good. I can imagine the relief.

Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about this 'cause I think my little story is just one of many. And one of the things that we're going to be talking about is what flow is and what stress can do to us. But before we get to that, give me a little bit of background on Nikki. You know, born, bred, raised, how on earth did you get to writing a book called "7 Steps to Finding Flow?"

Absolutely, a very good question. Well, I normally start, I'm a Durbanite. I was born and raised in Durban, spent a lot of the time very chilled on the beach, but was very ambitious, career wise. Really came from my background with my parents, my dad was a chartered accountant and my mom was an entrepreneur. And I really wanted to be able to make a difference and have an impact. And so I qualified to become a chartered accountant as well to really be able to understand business. It wasn't to be an accountant, so I often joke that I am a reformed accountant who now works in business. I am a leader in corporate currently, and I have been in corporate for almost 20 years from that perspective as a leader in the technology and operations space, building and fixing businesses and really supporting teams to be able to do their best and reach their highest potential. But I think what really happened along the way is you really start to attach some of that self-worth to that external validation, that ability to achieve the next accolade or the next gold star. And really what had started to happen was that I had almost become addicted to that high of delivery and was really starting to put my health and wellness second from that perspective.

And the old adage of your health whispers until it screams

really became the motto of my life for the last number of years. And being an academic, I always went into the research and really trying to figure out what was going on. I'd had a struggle with irritable bowel syndrome. I had permanent tension locked into my back and neck and shoulders, but I really wasn't listening to all of those little whispers that my health was giving me along the way. That was impacting both my health-life relationships. In fact, every facet of my life. But I got the ultimate wake-up call a couple of years ago. In fact, two years ago, when I was lying on my chiropractors table, she'd normally been the one who'd straightened me out and got me back on the road again, as I used to call it. She was my pit crew to make sure I could keep going and keep delivering, effectively keep white knuckling through life to control and get things done. But she basically, I had a partial dislocation on my shoulder. And the worst part about it was that I hadn't felt it. I'd normalized my state of stress to the extent that I wasn't feeling things anymore. And two days after that, the universe was sending me some very big signals. I was diagnosed with a nervous system and a state of freeze, which really means that I'd normalized that autonomic nervous system state of fight or flight to such an extent that I was really locked into that invisible straight jacket of stress, as I now refer to it.

Which according to the Avogal study that was done around the normalization of stress in our lives, because almost 70% of our days are spent in stress. When we live in a constant state of stress, we effectively put everything else on hold, aside from our immediate survival. And that has massive consequences for our health and our lives, our easefulness and our resilience. And so I dove straight into healing after that diagnosis and was very fortunate enough, doing all of the very affordable and very easily implementable modalities. I was able to heal in less than six months. A journey that normally takes people two to three years if they've caught it in time and the damage hasn't been too pervasive and too severe from that perspective. So really for me flow is about getting that release and that sense of flow back into our nervous systems so that we can actually take advantage of that incredible natural intelligence that sits within our bodies to support us unconsciously, day in, day out, rather than locking it in to the stressed out state where we think we can control everything. So yeah, that's really what flow is for me. And I talk about in my book that a flow state should be a state of being rather than a state of doing.

The Polish author Mihaly Csikszentmier spoke about a flow state being a state that we enter into to achieve something, to create something. I often think about Mozart's "Koncetto" when I think about his version of a flow state. The very transient state that we enter into, whereas I think it should be the state of being that we live in, where we work with life and find a flow in whatever we perceive balance to be in our lives. And it doesn't have to be perfect and it doesn't have to be perfectly balanced, which is a complete oxymoron from that perspective. So that's really where I came to from a flow perspective. - Okay, well, that's a great intro and it gives us such a nice place to kick off from. We'll be back in just a bit with my special guest, Nikki Robotham, author of "Seven Steps to Finding Flow." Flip the script on stress. I cannot wait to get into this. We'll be back in just a bit. This is what's involved. And we're back with my special guest, Nikki Robotham. Welcome to it. If you just joined us, what's involved? I don't know where you've been, but at least you're here now and that's a good thing. We're chatting to Nikki about her book, "Seven Steps to Finding Flow." Flip the script on stress.

So, wow, where do I start? Okay, let's start with things that happen in people's lives. You made a statement about 70% of us spend most of our days in a state of stress. Now, if you told me that a few years ago, I would have gone nonsense. Stress is good for us. And I also would have gone, I don't know what all of these people are that whine about stress. And then, as you mentioned, the universe stopped whispering and started shouting and I was diagnosed with type two diabetes. And that is a big wake up call. And yet, I still didn't listen. My journey started, but I still didn't listen because, you know, we become, and I think you talked about this, if I understood you correctly, Nikki, that stress becomes so normalized that it is our only way of being at the time. - Yeah, David, you're 100% right. And it's such a challenge to your earlier point. Most people aren't listening for the whispers. And my body was nudging me for a very long time. And eventually, I often joke that I got benched. I was no longer yellow carded. I was put onto the sidelines of my life until I actually started listening. But to your earlier point, stress can serve us, keeps us safe. It can help us meet deadlines.

And we don't really have an option to fully remove it from our lives. But as Hans Sully always says, it's not stress that kills us. It's our reaction to it that actually does the damage. And I'll go even further to say it's our relationship with stress. Because we don't even realize how pervasive stress can be in every aspect of our lives. A stressor doesn't even have to happen in order for that cascade of stress responses to really be triggered through our bodies. You can literally, it's the thought of the stressor. So that ping on your email, half the time you haven't even read the email, it's who it's from. We've already anticipated that there's going to be some tension in there. Sitting in traffic, and already I see people holding their breath, locking their shoulders and clenching their fists. And really bringing that tension straight into their bodies, which seems that signal that, hang on, I'm not quite safe here. So let's send out that stress response. It was that stress response that back in the day would have been saved for running away from a line. Send out the adrenaline, long-term the cortisol, get the glucose flowing so we can run away. We're doing that permanently through most of our lives because of that sort of always on white knuckling type mentality that so many people have had in their lives before COVID, but I think it's been exacerbated under the global pandemic.

When stress became so pervasive, given the level of uncertainty, and that again triggers a lot of those stress responses within our bodies and takes a toll on our resilience and our energy as well. - You know, this comes from the, and you talk about back in the old, old, old days, that fight or flight response. And that's got to do with a amygdala. And we do things for a couple of reasons in those days. And number one was to stop ourselves being eaten by something. The other one was so that we could get the extra energy to go and get something to eat. And then obviously at night we're cheating to hopefully save space. But that was good then, but it kept us alive. But as I understand it, and you mentioned this as well. So it's not so much the stress, it's our response to the stress. It's how quickly we get into that stress sort of that fight or flight mode, but then how quickly we can recover from that so that we're not continually flooding our bodies with all of these chemicals that our brain produces. Am I on the right track here? - Absolutely. And I think you hit on a very important point because as we've evolved as humans, we've intellectualized a lot of the things that we do, but forgetting that our bodies have an innate natural wisdom that is fairly primal in terms of the fact that if we go sprinting down a road thinking that I'm clearing my head and I'm gonna do this to relax and reduce my stress, but if your body is locked into that stress state, it's already going, hang on, am I running from something?

It doesn't know that you're doing this for stress relief. And we can actually compound the problems. I very much got into that spiral. And then I used to almost berate my body for letting me down, not holding up as part of the deal. And then I had to accept accountability that, I've got to be responsible for my whole body, my whole being, my thoughts and how I support it and the signals that I'm sending it and start listening to it so it starts to feel safe enough to be able to come back and rest. For too long, we've used our energy in a way that we always redline through our days. Think about driving a car with an accelerator with your foot flat on that accelerator and you never take it in for a service. Most people are doing that through their day. They're not taking those breaks on weekends or even micro breaks during the day to actually be able to dip our energy down, to be able to rest, recover, breathe and then come back far more resilient with far better energy that allows us to deliver at our best. Too often we're waiting for that mythical holiday which most people postpone for the end of the year. But our bodies are going, hang on, I need some support now. I'm needing you to work with me in a far more useful way that really supports the amazing work that you're trying to do.

We often just ignore it and think that it was just cope and keep up with us. And that's why I often ask people, what is the story you're telling yourself about your stress? And how are you justifying that role that stress is playing in your life and is it really serving you? I've seen too many people that mirrored back to me the role I was or the situation I was in three years ago telling me that no, it helps them deliver, they get all of this done. And I often have to say to them that I actually get more done now that I've been able to heal. When I was able to release my nervous system back into the state of flow, it was almost like, and I often joke that it was almost like a scene out of "The Matrix" with Neo where things started to slow down for me, not in a woo woo type of way, but literally I could almost see things coming, could see stress is coming and people's reactions. And I could actually have those few split milliseconds to be able to decide how I was going to react. I wasn't just triggered and emotional and reactionary reacting to things that were coming at me. Stress was now happening almost a little bit away from me whereas previously it had been happening up close and personal.

And that is why we're just so much less productive and less effective when we're sitting in those locked in stress states. And I think that the second question aside from what is the story you're telling yourself about your stress that we have to ask is what is the price that you might pay that is too much for you? Too many people only ask that question once they've breached that line. For me being unwell and realizing that you can't buy your health back was enough of a wake up call. So many people I know have gone past that point as you mentioned earlier. And I said to someone the other day, what is your line that is too much? That we're the price that you pay for your stress is too much. And she said to me when I lose my mental capacity, the problem is I've met people in that position and unfortunately they woke up too late. We need to listen to those whispers today. - Absolutely. I mean, I've mentioned this on the show before and about, well, around about this time last year, I literally also hit a wall because I was even more stressed than normal. And it got to the stage where somebody who makes their living by talking and by trying to sound coherent, I couldn't string two sentences together.

And that was a massive, massive wake up call for me. I'm not even gonna pretend to say I'm there yet. I'm still on this path and journey. And that is why it's so good to be able to chat to you. When we come back, I'm gonna discuss a little bit more about what stress does and what this mythical flow state is actually and how we know when we've achieved that. My special guest is Nikki Robotham. We're talking about her books, Seven Steps to Finding Flow. Flip the script on stress. What's involved that is back in a bit.

And we're back with my special guest, Nikki Robotham, author of Seven Steps to Finding Flow. Flip the script on stress. So before the break, Nikki, I was talking about how stress actually impacts us. And then there's this mythical thing that people talk about sometimes called the flow state. Because my understanding of it initially was that's when you can just sort of get your brain into the state of, okay, everything feels easy and effortless. But I neglected the body part of it. So let's start off with stress. What does stress do to our energy, our hormones, nervous system? What is the impact there? - Well, it effectively says that you're in, especially where we've normalized it, we effectively send everything into chaos, into that what I call the, we start the fire that could burn the house down. And if we don't start to remove ourselves out of that state of stress, where we are flooding our bodies with adrenaline cortisol, our main stress hormones, which effectively then say, right, glucose go to your main muscles of the bodies. We need to get out of the way of whatever the stress is. And often it's an email or someone who's ticked us off in traffic. Not really something we need to be running away from, but that can have so many far reaching effects around our blood sugar levels.

And then all of those other processes that our body will then deem to be non-essential. For example, digestion, which is really where a key impact happened in my life. Basically, the blood just moves straight away from your digestive system. And your nervous system then impacts the motility of your gut. And basically says that it's not essential to be eating right now and digesting food and absorbing nutrients because we're on red alert. We need to be running away from things. And so effectively that impacted my gut functionality. There was inflammation in my gut. It allowed everything else that was already sitting in my body to be able to come to the fore because we were thinking, well, my body was thinking, we need to be running away from this, from that side of things. But it doesn't only just, and I'm not gonna go into too much of the science. A lot of that is in my book. I can do at any given point for you guys if you'd like, but it can also impact things like fertility. But the other impact that most people forget about is that those stress hormones have to go somewhere and they have to be processed in your liver in order to be managed by the body. Because they can't just sit in your cell, sit in your body and keep you there.

Your body's trying to do everything it can to support you and manage this high state of alert that you're sitting in from that perspective. And so in my case, my liver, and I'm not a big drinker. I've never smoked, but my liver, when we did the full body analysis, gave us over 250 markers with a functional nutritionist by the name of Gillian Ford. It came back that I had a completely overloaded liver. It was overloaded not only with stressed hormones, but with parasites, pesticides, and heavy metals. One or two of those, our body can start to work with it, it can start to process them. But what had started to happen was that my liver had just become so overwhelmed with everything that it could no longer actually function efficiently. It was shutting down my bowel production, my gallbladder had become clogged, and that was impacting my ability to then digest fats. So what then happened as well is that my stomach acid was trying to step up and do the job for it because the bowel wasn't as prolific as it should have been. And eventually that started to struggle, and that then had another knock-on impact in terms of my digestion, which really led to a lot of those symptoms that I was feeling from that perspective.

And then you add to that the impact on our livers when it is overloaded, it either sends those toxins, those sort of natural chemicals, if it can't process them and store them, it sends them either out into the bloodstream, out through the skin, or it tries to eliminate them via the gut. And that means when you're really dealing with compromised processing in your body, and you then send the nasties out, your body just says, "Hang on, we are really struggling here, please give us some help." And so it really also then depends on the natural state of your underlying resilience and health to be able to support your body to recover. So there is such a significant impact that becomes a runaway bushfire when we are not taking care of our health and finding that that state of flow from a daily perspective. Would you like me to go a little bit more into my thinking on the flow states? As you said, we've long been conditioned that it is a state of doing, a state of creating, a transient state that we enter into. - Yeah, I would because, and I'm glad you mentioned about the science 'cause the book is full and you've got some great information there. We're not even gonna be able to touch the tip of the iceberg here, but it is in the book.

I can tell you this and the book is definitely an eye opener and it's not difficult things. So let's go into your definition then very quickly, Nikki. - Perfect, and David, just on that note, I read, I can't even, I think it was over 87 books to write the book and I knew what a task it was to wade through the heavy academic science. And one of the reasons I believe I was called to write the book was to make this information more accessible in a way that is useful for people to grasp and understand. Because to your point, I think that's been half the struggle is people do want to find out what's wrong with them, but they struggle to get through the science because it's very technical and academic. So without losing the sort of the science, I wanted to make it accessible. On the state of flow, as I mentioned, for me, I absolutely get that state of flow that we enter into to create something that the Polish author, Mihaly Czeńk Mihaly speaks about, that most of us I think have dealt with in our lives. As I say in my book, I'm not a pianist or a musician. So for me, it's normally been when I'm creating something, I'm drawing something and scribbling on a whiteboard or building a business case on my laptop, things start to come together.

But I realized that that must feel like intellectual whiplash for our bodies. Because surely if we're in flow and out of flow, that feels very staccato, very sort of, it's not that sense of easefulness, that state of alignment within our bodies and our lives. And I just think for me, bringing and really looking at our energy and our resilience in the state of our nervous system, that's for me where flow state really resides from that perspective, that easefulness that really supports us to live our best lives, that is easeful resilience and aligned, that supports us to be able to be inspired, to anticipate things that are happening in our lives, to hold our boundaries in a way that feels more like a garden gate than an electric fence, which is what most people who are stressed out tend to show up with when they're trying to hold a boundary or create some kind of delineation in their lives around what works for them and what doesn't. So for me, it's just the foundation of how we then enter into those creative flow states, if we have that foundational state of flow that really supports our resilience and our energy levels as we show up day to day.

- Okay, that's actually probably one of the best explanations I've heard so far, so thank you for that. When we come back though, Niki, I'd like to sort of dive into, and you've got a whole bunch of stuff in the book, which makes a lot of sense, but maybe something that if somebody's listening to either the radio show or the podcast afterwards, some of the tips that they could use themselves and start immediately, because take it from me, who's now been there, done that, Niki's been there, done that. Don't crash and burn first, okay? 'Cause the comeback is way harder if you crash and burn first. Stop, look, correct now. This is what's involved. We'll be back with my special guest, Niki Robotham, in just a bit. And we're back with my special guest. It is Niki Robotham, seven steps to finding flow. Flip the script on stress. This is her latest book. So Niki, the book is a must-get, okay? You've got to have this in your library, in my opinion. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. You do make the science a whole lot easier. But now somebody who's listening and goes, "Okay, maybe you guys have got a point. "Where do we start? "What are some tips that we can start with today?" - Yeah, and David, that's a very good point, because my intention through this book was not to create overwhelm, or where someone thinks I have to do all of these things in order to start to access healing and a more resilient life.

So I have broken it down into seven very easy steps to finding flow, which I'll talk to you shortly, and also give you some ideas around what are some of the things that you can do today? In fact, right now, to start to send those signals to your body that you're safe, and you can start to slightly de-stress and take that trigger out of your nervous system. But the most important thing, which is actually my seventh step to finding flow, and I just want to make sure I do mention it on this call, is around the fact that it's really around creating a plan for you that works for you. Whether or not you're dabbling in the shallow end, or you're going all in on healing, I've actually created a template for your own flow plan, and I've provided that as a free download off my website, which is nickirobotham.com. It's under the flow section there. Download your own flow plan. It's a template which gives you a lot of these tips and suggestions to be able to access today. And I really want to support people, especially during these times, which is why that's available free. My seven steps are really around releasing, and that's getting your nervous system back into that state of flow. And there's so many incredible small things that we can do even today.

But one of the most important things we have to do immediately is start to look at our breathing. Because so often we are shallow breathing, which is already a stress signal. We need to actually go back to those deep belly breaths where we really almost breathe in for a count of four, hold that breath for a count of four, and then release it. It is the quickest way to send the signal to your nervous system that you're safe. I went into a lot more deeper modalities, which really I think helped affect that change very significantly. But that deep breathing for me is one of the most important ones. Supplemented with things like yoga, meditation, listening to music. The second step is tuning in. It's starting to listen to that age-old wisdom in our bodies, that intuition that is serving us, and start to listen. Part of that is creating that awareness that actually this is not serving me. And maybe I have an issue that I need to deal with around my stress and its impact on my life. Step three is connect back in to really start to then trust that intuition. As soon as we start to trust our bodies, that intuition, our nervous system, and give it the things it's asking for, it's amazing how it just steps up to the plate and says, "I'm here with you, I get it that you're listening." And we're in this together.

But also then getting grounded back in, back into nature, getting outdoors, getting barefoot in the grass, and going for walks outside. Connecting back into nature and grounding into nature without insulating ourselves through rubber-soled shoes helps us access the natural anti-inflammatory effects of actually grounding and earthing ourselves back in the ground. The carbon in the earth has the most incredible support of impact on our bodies. Lighten the load is really around how we then take all of these things that then load up our liver, our lives, and our bodies out of our environment. And it doesn't have to be massive action. It can be one thing a week, one thing a day. This for me was really around creating a more low-tox lifestyle, looking at everything in and around and on my body. You think about the effectiveness of a nicotine patch, how much we actually absorb and how it gets into every cell in our body. This for me was a really pivotal state to give my body some breathing room in order to be able to heal. Rest and regenerate. This is all about sleep. And that for me is the next big thing everyone has to do, is start creating a sleep habit where you are prioritizing seven to nine hours sleep a night.

And unfortunately, no one is an exception to this, no matter how much we've justified it to ourselves that we can live on four to five hours sleep a night. Sleep is when our bodies heal, it supports our immune system, but also our ability to form new memories. If we get less than four hours sleep a night, it effectively shuts down our memory inbox in our brain. We start to forget names, we start to forget details. And for me, this is essential to how we live. And when I thought about the fact that you can't form new memories, that for me just was like, no, no, no, this is essential. Sleep is one of my number one things that I made sure that I don't compromise on. And then my sixth step before you get to finding your flow and creating your own flow plan is a pause for potency. This is where for me, our brain gets to change gears and really get inspired to look at things differently. It's around those micro breaks to breathe during the day, really using our weekends to become inspired and rest and become resilient. Not waiting for that year end holiday. This is often when I find my brain actually is given space to be able to solve challenges that I'm struggling with in my day to day, far more creatively.

So that pause for potency in our days and our weekends and our holidays for me is absolutely essential. We need to learn how to play again effectively. And then obviously coming up with a plan because I do firmly believe that hope is not an action plan. I know the quote that hope is not a strategy, but in this case, it's more of an action plan that is required. Whatever works for you, there is no perfection. There is no one size fits all. It's whatever's gonna work for you in your current state and what's accessible to you. - Wonderful. Now, Nicky, there's a couple of things as we head towards wrapping up. During or in the book, there's a couple of things that I've found very interesting is that you mention and you give space, a lot of space actually, to this concept of journaling. Are you a big fan? And I've had my mentor once describe the process of journaling very in elegantly, but I'm gonna share it on radio anyway. He said to me, he used to say to me, it's like taking an emotional dump and just getting the stuff out there. And that's one of the things that I found helped me was writing my thoughts, my feelings, my stresses, my fears, everything down. You are a big proponent of journaling, aren't you?

- I'm absolutely a big proponent of journaling. And to your point around, really sort of dumping your emotions on the page, I'd have to refer to that as rage on page. Sometimes you just have to let it all out rather than keeping that tension in your bodies. But I am such a fan because it's worked for me. And I actually have another business called Inspired Change, which is grounded in the principle of journaling. And there's an Inspired Change journal, which helps you achieve your goals and become more productive in small microsteps daily without creating that overwhelm and also bringing some balance into your life. I find that everyone always thinks they have to take massive action to get something done. And again, that doesn't help your body feel safe. So that for me is on the productivity side, but one of the most helpful journals that I have that I used, especially during the pandemic, is my Gratitude Attitude Journal. It's a page a day that literally guides you through becoming present and really embracing gratitude. And for me, that's really the most incredible practice to get us centered and focused back in. So for a lot of people, to your point, a blank page is really intimidating.

Where do you start? And that's why I produce journals that have a balance of structure to guide you and make it easy, but also give you space to make it your own. But that being said, I'm a big fan and have plenty of journals next to my bed where it is just that writing and getting it out. But when you think about the fact that you're actually taking tension out of your body, you're busy processing it at the same time as you're journaling, that for me is where the magic is. And so I say that people don't need anything fancy. They can just use the pages of my books that I've created the space for. - Wonderful stuff. And just another anecdote, one of the things that literally took me out of one of the deepest holes I've ever been in was starting a Gratitude Journal. And in the beginning, I was like, I have nothing to be grateful for. There's just nothing, life sucks, everything sucks. And I forced myself to, in the beginning, find the silliest things that I could be grateful for. Like the fact that I woke up, which I consider to win. Then things like I have had my pets, my two dogs that absolutely loved and adored me. And once I'd started to get into that habit, this whole gratitude thing became a lot easier for me, but it definitely is changing and it has changed my life.

Nikki, you mentioned that you have journals and you said your other business is called Inspired Change. Are people able to buy those? Are they physical products? Are they downloads? How does that work? - They are absolutely physical products and they're available on my website inspiredchange.co. I believe that we actually need to step out of this digital crazy world where we get distracted by popups and notifications and really be able to go back to a more analog tool, a physical journal, where we actually then get to focus on exactly those practices that you referred to. And for me, gratitude is the foundation of everything. And if there's one thing I leave people with, that is one of the most helpful techniques to also start to ground yourself and bring yourself out of that, it's been essential to me. So yeah, I do believe in an old fashioned book that we're not strung out on all of the digital distractions that normally keep us in that spiral of being always on. - Okay, so that's inspiredchange.co. You've also got your own website, which is nikirobotham.com. And that's spelled N-I-C-K-Y-R-O-W-B-O-T-H-A-M.com.

Nikki, robotham.com. Nikki, the book is available. It's out now. I know you like analogs, but it is available digitally as well, isn't it? - It absolutely is. And it's coming to Audible soon and all actually audiobook formats. So whilst I leave in there for journaling, I wanna make the book accessible to serve everyone. - Oh, I'm gonna have to get the Audible version then, 'cause I am a big fan of Audible, especially if I'm driving around. Rather than listening to all the bad news on the radio, I will listen to something positive and uplifting. Nikki, before I let you go, the books are available, as you said, online and in some good bookstores as well. You should be able to get it there. Do you offer training at all to people? And if people need to get hold of you, maybe there's a corporate that goes, oh, hang on, I feel like, and maybe they're very enlightened, we need to do something for our company. Is that the kind of thing you do? - Absolutely. And I also have a digital course that is coming soon. So people can also sign up on our website to be notified as soon as that's available. But I've been doing a lot of that and really just talking to support people and serving whatever they need from that perspective.

So corporate, individual, but for me, the digital course is the next path to service for people. - Wonderful stuff. So that is nikirobotham.com. Two questions, Nikki. The first one is, before I let you go, what advice would you give to somebody who's currently listening to this and they're sitting on the fence going, I might be stressed, I might not be stressed. What advice do you give to us? - I think the biggest thing is to really start to pay attention to yourself if you're unaware around, first of all, if you're stressed and what's causing that stress, I would ask people to slow down and really almost check in with yourself around, are you holding your breath? Is there tension in your shoulders and not in your stomach? Are you clenching your fists? Are you reacting with a sense of anxiety and overwhelm to certain situations? And are you just generally not well? Because that's generally what's serving that or what's underpinning that is generally a stressed out state. And then for me, the next thing is maybe to start that journaling process. It's the best way to create the awareness because we can't come to a path of healing without that awareness and then owning that story that we tell ourselves about our stress.

- Wonderful stuff. And then conclusion. What's next for Nikki Robotham? - There's definitely a second box in the works. But for me, the first thing is being able to get this message out to a wider audience. And that's really where the digital course and a YouTube channel are coming into the mix. I really wanna be able to serve and support and provide resources for people to access as easily as possible. - Wonderful stuff. So you can follow Nikki's journey once again, nikirobotham.com, her book, "Look for It." It's called "Seven Steps to Finding Flow, "Flip the Script on Stress." Nikki, thank you so much for taking the time out and having a chat to us. I really do appreciate it. I hope your book sells incredibly well because I think it's something that should be on everybody's bookshelf. And we wish you all the best. - Thanks, David, I appreciate that. - There we go, that was Nikki Robotham, my special guest. Wraps it up for this part of what's involved. To each and every one of you, take care, look after yourselves, and thank you for listening.