Mike Teke — From Alpha Male to Collegial Leader: How One CEO Changed His Approach to Greatness

what's your dream what's your goal what's your motivation what's important to you what's your passion what can you do to change the world this is what's involved conversations with thought leaders and change makers from around the world hear stories of hope and inspiration to help motivate people like you to live your life find your passion passion and live your dream together we can all bring positive change to our world now here's your host David Watts once more these what's involved my special guest been looking forward to chatting to you at this gentleman for a while now just released a book it's called the future of leadership is collegiality and when I read collegiality I was like okay I'm not quite sure what that means does it mean you have to go to college or what the story is here and that's one of the reasons I got him on there on with me so we can find out what collegiality is and why it is the future of leadership the author who is joining me today is Mike Tech a good day Mike how you doing I'm good and yourself David always always good and fascinated to to talk to people out and about in the business world people are doing things who are changing lives and you're one such person and I must be honest with you right up until the book landed on my desk somebody who at least to my mind has flown very much share underneath the radar so let's see if we can if we can find out a little bit more about who Mike Tech is tell me a little bit about you and growing up etc etc I was born in a township called Watema near the towns called springs and that township is was was developed as a result of people moving from one area called pain though because of a tornado years tornado years back and my grandmother owned a house there my grandfather died in 1955 and my grandmother was left to raise her own children she had 10 kids my mother was the last one in the family of 10 and my mother then as well gave had four children and I was the last one in here amongst their children and she passed away and I was left with my grandmother who was a disciplinarian a tough tough old lady but who was humble and looked after us and she raised me with values that I still today a spouse and I spread those values simple things like being ethical to had had to work a heavy heavy work ethic three waking up early and make sure that you the first be the first over time and I was raised then I went to school in Guatemala at Freta baby primary school high school Kenneth Masikela then I matriculated I went before I went to university there was no money at home it was me and my sister and cousins and aunts nobody could raise money to help me to go to university and I was the first one to pass metric with what they call matriculation exemption and then I went at family in Springs a packaging business for 12 months and I raised money I remember I was ending 76 around a week and I raised enough to take me to university for the first year unfortunately for my second third and fourth year a great company called Gillette South Africa helped me union of the Jewish women helped me and the town council of Guatemala they assisted immensely and I qualified I got my first two degrees there at the University of the North and I came back I became a teacher yeah why because I was going to work for Unilever I got a job with Unilever and unfortunately I had to start in Devon and I couldn't go I didn't want to go to Devon and then the principal where matriculated asked me to teach for a year and then after that I went to Unilever again and they gave me a job and then I left Unilever I went to Bayer, Bayer the German multinational and then BHP built in and life started effectively when I started looking at working for myself rather than working for somebody else number one number two making a major contribution to certain sectors of our economy which I believe had a great future at that time and they still that those sectors still have a great future and will continue to influence life for the coming 50 60 or 100 years so that's me I'm a hard-working person I'm ethical I do my best wake up as early as possible and I try to make a difference in people's lives Mike I think that's fantastic and when I talk to to people like you what always amazes me is how humble you are about your beginnings about the struggle I mean I know Kritima I was I was born and bred in Benoni so we were to a certain degree almost next-door neighbors at least if we followed some of the mine tunnels I'm sure we would have found we were next door neighbors with all the mining that went on there but you know you got to BHP Billiton a lot of your time has been spent in the mining sector did you did you have did you develop a passion for the mining sector that's a good question 1994 when I worked for Bayer the German multinational a lot of people never knew that Bayer as a chemical or pharmaceutical businesses people knew it as aspirin in people they owned two mines in South Africa one was a fluous for mine called Fergannock Mining Company in the Hamanskrau area the second company was called Bayer Crum mines in Rustenberg and I happened to work there 1994 I got exposure to mining at that time and I fell in love with mining I used to go underground at Rustenberg Crum mines and I was fascinated about underground mining which I thought was amazing and that those were the years 1994 I was fascinated by the people working underground I like the language I speak about fun and a lot because it's a language that fascinated me mixing different languages to create that language and then I was attracted to mining and in 1999 I was then I then had an opportunity to join some Manko which is which is BH people part of BH people it and and I then was attracted to Crum to Manganese and then cold and ultimately the coal mines that I frequented all the time I went underground and open cast mines it was that attraction and I started to spend time with a gentleman called Eddie Squalls he was the chief operating officer who influenced me but in the book I talk about another gentleman called Philip Hector those are the people who influenced my life that I fall in love with mining that mining is the future they're a great thing that that can happen in mining but I spent time reading about coal mining specifically I started reading about coal mining looking at the patterns look at the pricing models and I sort of was able to say I may be able to predict what will happen to the future to do the coal industry in the coming 10 20 30 40 50 years so that was the influence for me and today I find myself in still in the coal mining industry things have changed coal has become somewhat of I call it the enigma but the way things are happening in the coal mining industry it's exactly what I predicted and it's exactly what I'm seeing and it's exactly what I'm seeing for the coming 10 20 30 years to 20 50 to 20 60 now you see I'd love to get into that but but I'm not going to I'm going to just wait a little bit and what I'm gonna do is you're gonna have a quick break now when we come back we'll continue my special guest is Mike Tekker he is the author of the future of leadership is collegiality this is what's involved will be back in a bit this is what's involved don't forget to subscribe and leave a review more next and we're back what's involved today is my special guest Mike take care talking about his book the future of leadership is collegiality so Mike one of the questions that that sprang to mind and also just from from going through the book as well is in those days when you were sort of cutting your teeth so to speak on the business world and enjoy it specifically in mining I mean in those days and I'm and I don't know I'd like to think things have changed a lot but I don't know if they have but there it was all rough and tough okay it was leadership by domination it was leadership by being ruthless and and just you know you were surrounded with with these alpha males and it was my way or the highway and now suddenly you come out with a book called you know the future of leadership is collegiality so talk to me about that I mean if you were brought up like that why did you not continue in that that sort of vein did you see a problem with the way things were well yeah the observation was when we were coming growing up in the industry as young managers you I'm an ambitious person I was aspiring one day that I would be a CEO which I am I've been CEO until 10 years when I ran optimum and now and I'm proud to say that I've built my own businesses and I've watched great leaders I've watched people who are one dominant alpha males a type of personalities who sit in a meeting and scream and bang the tables and fists on the table and everybody keeps quiet and listen to this person and you watch and say maybe one day I'll do the same thing you know I'll be tough and nobody will take any I want I won't take prisoners you know and it was more that conversation and then you behave the way they behave you speak their language the only thing I've never done thanks god I've never smoked or drank that is like alcohol because some of the guys would smoke a lot and drink and you know those are the guys who are macho who are seen as powerful people and I observed that then you reach a stage where you are in your 50s maybe you started that in the late 30s 40s 50s is okay but when you are in the 50s then you start to notice that your people's health deteriorates you know some people get heart problems some people become diabetics some people high blood pressure and other complications that come with life and we start to say is it about growing are we growing old or is the body getting worn down quickly or is it because you are inflicting distress yourself on yourself and I noticed that I do that I scream at people and after screaming at people you suddenly sitting on your own in your office and people have left you have a massive headache because you've just been screaming at people and I reflected over the years and I said to myself one day is there a better way to do things where one you are able to say listen I've given you a task I've given you a responsibility to deliver and you are not delivering and make sure it's as collegial as possible make sure that everybody's not relaxed as such but sitting in an environment that everybody feels that we are human beings and we respect each other but we deliver the bad news and say you're not delivering it you're not delivering you're not cutting it and I think it's time that we pathways go and find a job somewhere look after your children look after your family rather than breaking people down and forgetting that these are the people who we must destroy and when they go back home they must just be sick and is that the way you do things no so then it started today and I started reflecting on different incidences where it may start where people are scared of you - it reaches a stage where those who are not scared of you you end up being friends with them as a result you ingratiate with them you fraternize with them you sit with them at the pub at the bar you talk about things soccer different topics and then when it comes to performance management and deliverables in business suddenly you can't do it because you ingratiate with these people they are your friends so I'm saying get rid of these funny friendships get rid of this ingratiating circumstances but when it comes to deliverables make sure you as collegial as possible sit across the table tell the person that it's not like we are inside a tumble dryer the two of us no no no we're sitting in an office nobody's going to get chest pains nobody's going to be stressed here but the proof is I asked you to do ABC and you haven't done ABC and let's talk temps of you just moving on go and look for something that you can do better you're not suited to this role why do we have to make it such a big thing and fight and throw things around the table suddenly you the one who's left with chest pains go to your doctor your sugar levels are high your blood pressure is high and you sick but you feel like you are the superstar and it's not true you wearing a facade effect absolutely now you've touched on on two of four principles you discuss in the book the one being collegiality you talk fraternization ingratiation and self-respect now the first the first one I was like collegiality I'm not entirely certain where that because it brings up you know things of college and people being clever fraternization was always used for me in a negative aspect as well as ingratiation also used in a negative sort of connotation and then self-respect well that one that one was very clear to me so talk to me where did these concepts these four concepts where did they come about and then let's maybe chat about just some of the references from the book where you've gotten some of these learnings so the first one let's talk about collegiality collegiality comes as a result of I always have one-on-ones with my team I'll always have one-on-ones with my team as in how are things going how are you performing is everything going well and it's informal and we sit around the table and often because of my personality I I have this temper which I was born with I've got it I'll call it a terrible temper which I've managed to sort of tame and be nice and it'd be a good human being and it leads to arrogance at times and then I started saying but Mike if you become collegial which I was discussing professor marijuana at UJ and as a prof for us to get results make University of Johannes back the best let's start talking to people like human beings let's not scream at people the f-word there's throwing things and screaming unnecessarily and telling people ugly stories and that's why it started with collegiality and prof marijuana said to me I get your point and it it works well for me I find it's useful this morning I was sitting with our CFO in the business and we're talking numbers and I kept quiet and I was listening and I looked at myself and I said had it been the mic maybe two three years ago I probably would be heated as in debating things in a hard way but today it's just collegial because I'm learning as well as I wrote this book that's the first one on fraternization I've always noticed that people tend to think that because you are my boss then I must stop looking for those things that are common between the two of us do you play golf can we play golf and you like talking about cars and every Monday morning do you watch f1 do you watch this and you end up being distracted from the main goal so let's watch this fraternization thing that you know what we can talk as much as possible we can talk about golf but guys we here on a mission with building a business we creating a value we creating a future for humanity we making the world a better place let's make sure that we work rather than spending two three hours talking hey did you see did you see a Ferrari on Saturday did you see from Louis Hamilton that's why the whole fraternity in the world you become a fraternity where you borders become blurred you don't know now when to tell people the right things and when not to because they've become your friends the third one is in graduating way it becomes somewhat of we stand at the pub drink together and you even scared to leave and go home after five o'clock because the guys at the pub will say where are you going you one of us let's get drunk and your wife at home screams at you when you come there why do you come back late it's it's that element and then the last one I'm saying if you do well in terms of one-on-one conversations if you do well in leading a team if you do well in being a CEO who's respected that's self-respect you stand in front of the mirror you feel good that Mike you've doing a fantastic job but you start swearing and screaming at people and throwing things at people you look like a clown you know there is this techish proverb that I like that says if a clown moves into a palace he doesn't become the king the palace becomes that second you know so for me self-respect comes because you watch fraternization you watch in graduating and you become collegial in your conversations with everybody I absolutely love that and that's a that's a great gate sort of sort of explanation there I was just talking as you were talking about prof maula I've actually interviewed him I think once or twice and what an incredible incredible human being and you know when you when you mention him now I thought okay this this is now starting to make sense because he's got such a depth of wisdom we're gonna take a quick break and we'll come back and we'll talk a little bit more about the contents of the book my special guest is Mike Tekker the future of leadership is collegiality and we'll be back in a bit this is what's involved we'll be right back with more what's involved David would love to hear from you to leave a voice message visit what's involved calm and click drop me a voice note we're back what's involved with Mike take care talking about his book the future of leadership is collegiality now Mike throughout the book you you have sort of references and case studies and I think just before we got into this this episode I said to you this is not a book that in my opinion you would read and it's a one-and-done book you don't read it from cover to cover put it down and say well that was great thank you very much this is almost like a reference book because once you've read it it's got so many lessons in it that you that you can go back to you it's got case studies it's it's absolutely brilliantly written in that way and I think just by looking at it you've spent an awful lot of time on this book so question number one in this section is is when did you start writing the book and how long did it take so I started in 20 during COVID there was a conversation I was having with the team from the National Union of Mine Workers and I at that time I had started with the notes on the book I was crafting on paper how it's going to look like how it's going to be in fact the book would have been bigger than this and then one day what's back to the idea to say Mike just do it now you're ready because I had the manuscript it was something like 14 15 pages scribble by hand now I must start typing we had a meeting with the National Union of Mine Workers and one of the Union people in the meeting was talking about he was not happy about fraternization what was happening and what we are seeing at the mark one of the mines and I said to myself this is the time so it started in 2021 meet COVID when people were at home most of us were not at home because as coal mining people we didn't stop we had to make sure that we purchase coal and in the evenings then my patterns of sleeping had become how can I say a reinforced to the mic I know because I sleep at nine quarter to nine and I'm up at quarter to three or so this morning I left Cape Town at what got a past four went to the airport so those are my times that I wake up and then I noticed that I need to add another hour in the morning when I wake up which means an hour away before I go to the gym must not type and it was like I dedicated 40 minutes 50 minutes of typing if I think of something overnight I would wake up and type and it started shaping up and becoming a book in 2022 it was later in the year when I handed it over to the editor and I said with the editor and I said listen go through this it looks ugly it's a manuscript with something like 400 pages and she did a fantastic job Leela was started and she removed a lot of chapter some of the chapters nonsense rubbish not good I was sort of at some stage feeling like no the time when I said do you know what this is a waste of time it's becoming true academic just like my PhD I've been trying to put together my topic for my PhD and I've been postponing pursuing but it's already now I've got a professor who's going to help me work on the PhD so I started in 21 the whole 22 and towards the end of 2022 September then we started putting proper deadlines together with Tracy and she was putting the deadlines now Mike on this day I want this on this day I want this on this day I want this and I complained I said but this was going to be a 300 page book and she said no a book is not about the pages it's about the quality of the message and that's how it was wrong yes I can imagine god because I know Tracy and she is the most amazing person but I sometimes call her the iron lady because you know she she has what is the old saying she she has an iron fist in a velvet glove but between somebody talks about your book I mean this is like to me it's the equivalent of somebody coming up to you and going listen I see you got a baby but it's actually quite an ugly baby exactly this is this is my baby what the heck but listen it's it's come out it's come out as a fantastic book and one of the things that that does strike me aside from the fact that you're incredibly humble and you you freely admit that that you're not perfect you have flaws you talk about having to deal with with a bad temper I know exactly where you're coming from there the other thing is I learned many many many years ago one of my mentors used to also go to bed very early and wake up very early and in order for me to ever talk to him I used to have to be up early as well sure and so I kind of unwittingly in the beginning got into that habit and now my habit is pretty much the same as yours except except I think I go to sleep by about eight half-past eight at night but but generally if not earlier generally about three four o'clock I'm at my desk and doing my thing so yeah and it just I don't know it's just become such a force of habit even on the days when I don't have anything to do I don't have to get up I still wake up at that time every single day so something something in common nice to know that there's there's another fellow early riser out there but like in the book and then just getting back to the book you talk a bit not a bit there's there's a lot of lessons that you've learned and a lot of people that you have come into contact with which has had great impact on your life let's discuss just one of those those interactions and and somebody's really had a great impact on your life that appears in the book well let's talk about the person who wrote the foreword for the book Marius Clopas I admired that man actually in my life I always say if you met Marius Clopas and you met a guy called Chilizi Marwalla you met two great human beings who are intellectually gifted who are who got intellectual horsepower second to none who are bright who are just I always say to Chilizi if you were to wear Superman suit Chilizi you are complete so Marius was like that but the most important person in the book is a guy called Philip Herrton Philip was the chief operating officer of a ph people it in Manganese in South Africa Philip used to sit me quietly and that is the man who used to be tough but very collegial he used to sit with me and say he called me young man and used to say young man one you have learned something about you what the work you produce the presentations you do when you speak at X Corps the way you present yourself the results you produce a fantastic mic but let me teach you something you can see around the corners you come up with the opportunities and that is why one day you're going to be a great great person wherever you go but don't be arrogant don't don't be okay be humble and I said to him and he said to you were born humble you were raised humble but to the circumstances the car you drive the environment you find yourself they show us you get from us we pay well we look after you we promote you we'll suddenly mislead you and make you powerful and arrogant don't be careful and I was humbled by that man and today I take off my head because he taught me great lessons and that was a blind spot because my temper for me was like it makes me feel strong I'm deadline driven things must be perfect if you walked into our office here I walk around but still look for mistakes and Philip taught me that be humble don't be arrogant do it nicely and I'll tell you your gold places and he was right so that meant me you know as you're talking about this I can only really relate in terms of my radio career and I worked for a while for one of the big commercial radio stations in Johannesburg and I think he was the CEO at the time and we were all we used to call him the great white shock behind his back we would never do it to his face because we were terrified absolutely terrified of this man because you never knew when something was gonna set him off or when he would fly off the handle or you know just go nuts and and I remember the amount of times he used to sort of walk down the corridors as I was I was arriving for a shift or leaving or whatever and I would press myself up against the wall and go please don't see me please don't see me please don't see me and you know look at that stage it worked he is subsequently humbled and and himself and and he's become to to my mind he is he's a incredible human being these days but in those days yeah he didn't you didn't want to he didn't want to mess with him so Mike the book is I'm trying to and I shouldn't but I'm trying to put this this this sort of book into into a nice little a nice little box that I can put a bow on it but I can't and I think that's a good thing because this is not just for CEOs it's not just for the the creme de la creme this is a book that everybody that aspires to greatness and aspires to be better this is a book that they should read and I'm and I'm glad that it's out and and I'm glad you talked about this because this concept of collegiality is an amazing concept and if I'm not mistaken it takes into account something that I am incredibly passionate about and that's our humanity because I think over the last number of years and I think COVID COVID made it worse it first got better than it got worse and now post COVID it's it's even it's even more rampant and this is we seem to have lost touch with our humanity and in our ability to care for individuals to care what we do to care how we do it to want to live and and leave a legacy so that you know when when your time has passed there is something that remains that you have contributed to this world am I correct in saying that collegiality incorporates all of this it does you know I reflected on an interesting story and hence we removed some of the things which the editor felt that way too political I reflected on a leader who really I'm sure you know in our history when President Mandela was taken to court by some people I'm sure you know that case and he ended up saying he is going to court and he went to court to defend himself because he felt that he was the citizen of a country and he was not beyond reproach and it was amazing that humanity that humility out of him and that was rather than saying I'm the boss you're not going to do anything to me I'm untouchable something like that those were the deep lessons that we never forget about people who are gone he's gone but we don't forget about President Mandela but then think of yourself as somebody who through you throw laptops you throw throw laptops as people in the office you scream at people and somebody meets you at a shopping center with your kids and tells your kids that story and say you know what your dad does when he's in the office and it's to some extent do you lose that self respecting perspective people stop say we don't take this guy seriously this is the guy who does strange things when he's in his angry and that's why collegiality comes in to say how do we make a world a better place how do we make the world good for humanity I reflected in the book I developed a model which we are removed by the way where I was talking about countries starting from the east to the west and I said there are artists there are two countries in each one of these regions of the world in the far east we've got two countries that right at each other's throats and it's not good for humanity and the leaders of those two countries why don't they sit around the table and say we have differences and we're not going to improve on these differences but let's make sure that for the sake of humanity let's try and talk in a collegial manner about these shoes if you go to the Middle East there are two countries that are at each other's throat if you go to the middle east and the western side there are two countries at each other's throat if you go to Africa you come across those areas and I'm saying collegiality is the one that's going to bring out that humanity it's going to bring humanity out of us. And we need it we desperately need it, Mike we're running out of time I'd like to wrap up so when we come back we'll be wrapping it up I'm gonna ask the cold question I've managed to get through most of this chat without asking the cold question I'm gonna ask it when we come back my special guest is Mike Teke author of the Future of Leadership is Collegiality we'll be back in just a bit hey like what you're hearing share the podcast with your family and friends and spread the word this is what's involved and we're back with my special guest Mike Teke great book go out get it we'll talk about where to get it now it's called the Future of Leadership is Collegiality okay Mike the question because this is this is kind of book related but mostly not you said that you had a passion for coal mining and in the past you look towards the future you saw where we were and where we would likely end up you know it's nice for us to think that we as South Africa can move past all of our power problems and and you know specifically get off the grid as it were and forget about coal where do we stand on that I mean what is what is the future of coal for the next 20 years so cool it's a fossil fuel number one number two fossil fuels by their very nature and hydrocarbons whatever I call them oil coal are emitters of carbon and they are causing problems for the environment and climate change and we're going to see challenges with this with these resources as we bend them so we need to make sure that we reduce or eliminate they are used over a period of time we need to transition to new forms of energy but the way we do it the wet transition must be such that we all become responsible what I mean is a car that is using petrol and diesel oil and the like ultimately we're going to reach a stage where electric vehicles will be perfected and we'll transition and reach a stage where petrol cars or combustion engines will be eliminated there is nothing wrong with that it is a journey that we trust on coal we are saying the same thing to say we transitioning from coal over a period of time 20 30 40 years it will take us some time we South Africa right now today we've got 16 coal fired power stations one six do you want to tell me that me and you have been talking about humanity I'm going to just switch off those 16 and say to people sorry why else do we struggle with something called load shedding we need to be transitioning slowly and say come bring solar bring wind us as you have invested in wind right now we've got something called sterica green we are building 111 tab I call a wind turbines in a woman why because we believe the transition will happen it is a different argument from somebody who says no no no no coal will be here permanently and we don't want renewables we hate them no no I don't hate renewables I embrace renewables it is the future but once I question David Cole will still be here in 2050 however in a very very very reduced manner there will be countries that shall have eliminated coal there will be countries will still be using coal we may find ourselves of South Africa probably around 2050 with less than 16 of those power stations maybe between 6 to 10 or 5 depending on how rapid our development is when it comes to renewables and we don't leave anybody behind from the society economy point of view okay all right you see once again and this is why I love chatting to the kind of people I chat to you because for me it's all about it's all about hope and it's all about positive stories and I'm glad you touched on sweetie because I did some research there and saw what you guys were busy with and I think that is absolutely fantastic and to see that you have that vision and foresight is a is brilliant to to see Mike the book is is available I'm assuming at all good bookstores is it available online as well it's available online I saw it's available at exclusive books I was disappointed I didn't see it in Cape Town exclusive books I didn't see it at the airport exclusive books and the sale of this book should not be understood as though I want to make money out of the book I've committed myself I ran a foundation called Massimo foundation whatever process come out of this book we're going to donate it to that and it helps a lot Massimo foundation that has a great job it's run on the basis of doing something on education doing something on healthcare trying to get feeding people eliminating poverty and making sure that the world is a better place so that's the purpose of the book that's why I wrote it and it's everywhere yeah wonderful stuff God get it there's a lot of times when I would go you know just make it easier and everybody get the Kindle version this is one of those books that you shouldn't really get the Kindle version if you can avoid it surely because there's so much information in it and it's the kind of book that you want to keep close and you want to be able to refer to and make notes etc etc so definitely well worth getting before I let you go Mike what's next what's next for my take care are we are we going to expect book number two what what have you got interesting thing is I'm building a business I'm excited about what I'm building a Massimo group founded Massimo group which owns which is a shareholder in Cerritti is building great businesses we investing in great businesses but beyond that there's a second book coming before the end of this year definitely ah wonderful stuff okay well I'm gonna put my name down right now for an interview on that book as well okay yes wonderful stuff but there we go wraps it up for this edition of what's involved my special guest is pretty much yeah my special guest has been Mike Teke the future of leadership is collegiality go out get it Mike thank you for your time I know you're a busy man and I appreciate you taking the time out to each and every one of you look after yourselves take care and thank you for listening thanks for listening to what's involved we hope this episode inspires you to find your passion and live your dream don't forget to rate review and share the podcast and to see what's happening what's going on and what's coming follow what's involved on Facebook and Twitter at what's involved thanks again for listening