Mike Handcock — Founder, Coach, Entrepreneur, Conscious Leader, Author, Film Maker, Musician

And once more it is what's involved and man have I got a guest for you. I have been looking forward to chatting to this person for such a long time and finally I managed to get a try. Who am I talking about? I'm talking about Mike Hancock. Hello Mike. Hi David. How are you doing? Good, good, good. It's awesome to have you along with us on the show. Now before we get into a little bit of your story, you've done so many things. I actually don't know where to start but I think one of the things that we're going to be talking about is the circle of excellence and also the concept of becoming more conscious and maybe looking at things like conscious capitalism. We're going to see where the discussion goes but before we do that tell me a bit about Mike Hancock. Give me a bit of your background and how you managed to end up where you are today. Well I have lived in New Zealand most of my life. You know I've been backwards and forwards to South Africa for the last eight years with my partner Landy Jack and essentially I was born in Australia but I didn't really resonate with the Australian way of life so I sort of left early on in my career. I was orphaned at 15 so you know I was an only child to a solo mother David. She died when I was 15 so I moved in with my best friends, finished school, didn't have the opportunity to go to university until I was well into my 30s and then sort of moved out. Became a professional musician. I played 12 years professionally so I had a great life doing that, playing in a rock band.

At the same time I was building a career in financial services. I ended up in my mid-30s being a general manager of the largest financial services company in New Zealand. In Rand had about 2.5 billion Rand a year that we had to get as a target about 4,000 salespeople and I realized you know sort of around 20 plus years ago now that you know big corporate wasn't for me. I always thought I wanted to be the CEO of a big corporate but I realized that most of the people that were there really didn't care about the company, the people, the clients or anything like that. They were simply trying to earn more money for themselves and do it with the least possible effort. So we were going through an IPO at the time and I facilitated along with five others of the senior management team, my expert exit and started my entrepreneurial life and since then I've owned companies in areas as diverse as construction, events, the music business of course, coaching and institutes and travel so quite a few things but for the last 20 years really what I've been known for is my work in conscious leadership, authoring several books and going to 108 countries and spreading the word of really people taking care of themselves and sort of becoming the best version of themselves that they can be which quite honestly was stirred up by what I didn't see in my corporate life. Yeah conscious leadership but Mike just on that side and you know we might sway a little off the beaten path here and talk about things a little more esotericly.

I've noticed and this has been a theme particularly it started before COVID but particularly during last year the main sort of time of the pandemic people seem to be becoming more conscious and more awake and more sort of interested in themselves and how they can better themselves and how they can be of service. Is this something that you found and that you encourage? Well absolutely it goes a long way back before then but the certain movements that have happened and certain trigger points so I mean we're talking about the work of Rudolph Steiner, Napoleon Hill, we're going back to the 1800s and early 1920s with Napoleon Hill but you know in 1987 on the 14th of August 1987 there was something called the harmonic convergence and a guy sort of called Jose Aguelos who basically introduced the Mayan prophecies to the world got a bunch of people together in New Mexico who's expecting a few hundred to turn up but 200,000 turned up so the whole thing went viral to have a look at this thing called the harmonic convergence which was the lining up of the planets a very rare occurrence and that triggered the whole New Age movement as we know it today. I mean you've got people like Greg Braden were there, Deepak Chopra, James Redfield the list goes on and on and on of these sort of household author names in New Age thinking and consciousness that literally came together in 1987. The next sort of pivot point was 1994 and that was really when I think my inner soul got triggered to find out what more was out there in the world and not to listen to the imprints that I'd had from school and well-meaning people but to realize that history was his story and there's many many different versions of history for instance in Japan they don't teach the second world war in schools in Japan at the moment so they're getting a different version of history so that really triggered me to go on a search which I'm still on to this day from 1994 to now to find out what's the truth in life, what's this all about and I mean the beautiful thing is it's led me to have the most incredibly crazy wonderful life of taking ownership for myself and I think in 2012 when it was meant to be the end of the world with the Mayan prophecies and that's what the media said but of course anybody who understood the prophecies knew that it was a shake-up from there and I really think that now COVID has been the thing that's triggered what's going to be a seven-year cycle which is really going to allow people to choose. People are going to choose right now consciously whether they become conscious and stop believing a lot of the BS that we were fed or whether they simply want to tow the line and do everything the government or the boss or whoever they listen to the media actually says they should so we're at a pivotal point in human history right now and every single person listening to this is here for a reason and they've chosen to be incarnated at this point in time and this point in history which I find fascinating to be honest with you. I'm not sure what your opinion is. My opinion is fairly similar to yours because as I said you know I try and remain as objective as I can but it's just something that's become more and more and more apparent to me. I mean in days gone by when people sort of you know looked at me and I spoke about what I believed and what I thought and everything I was often considered somewhat of a fringe dweller with some weird ideas about how the world works and energy and intention and purpose that seems to be becoming more of the norm these days. However there's still a lot of people that are that are trapped and that have challenges and particularly in our country Mike and I'm just looking now at your circle of excellence where you say prosperity, freedom, purpose. These are things that make huge sense to me but yet we still seem to be struggling and we seem to be stuck and taking that last step. So what do you do in terms of helping to educate people?

Well firstly prosperity, freedom, and purpose David. Two out of three of those never works. So you know I know South Africa is considered by the world to be probably a second world country these days. Sometimes a third world country you'll see it written but you know in this country we have a lot of prosperous people with a lot of freedom and you know any listener who doesn't believe that. I mean I do business in over 50 countries and South Africa is one of the most profitable for us continuously. But those same people don't seem to have a lot of purpose so they tend to be generally unhappy. Whereas you might go to Bali and people have a lot of purpose and a lot of freedom but not much prosperity. Guess what? They're generally unhappy as well. So you know for the last 20 odd years I've been on a mission to really show people the true possibility that lies within themselves and particularly for entrepreneurs. I mean I spoke with John Key who is the past Prime Minister of New Zealand for eight years between 2008-2016 and he said to me right back in 2008 my politicians will never change the world. It's very unlikely. Business leaders probably even more unlikely. It's entrepreneurs and people at grassroots who have the most chance of changing the way the world works and I really took that on. I really agreed with him. So you know we do that through books, we do it through seminars, we do it through coaching programs, we do it through retreats when we're allowed to have them pre-Covid. We do it through all sorts of mechanisms and we truly are global. So one of our bases is Cape Town, another one of our bases is Auckland, another one of our bases is in the Greek Islands. So we like to travel, we like to experience the world and so many people put up so many barriers to doing things David and I can remember with a past partner of mine, her parents said that they'll have to wait till they retire to travel. Well guess what? They're of a retirement age now and they're not traveling. So I'm very much a carpe diem, seize the day type person and I think that's why I laugh when you said oh Mike's done so many things. I'm a PR person's nightmare because they don't quite know how to brand me but I think the reason is because I don't want to die not knowing whether I want to go somewhere or do something. So therefore I've written books, I've created films, I've played in bands, I've got multiple businesses, I'm in multiple countries and all of that is not because I have any more, any less opportunity than anybody. I was an orphan at 15. It's because I wanted to experience the world and I want to experience the greatness that the world has to offer and that's as simple as watching somebody walk along the beach with their dog as it is making the next million dollars which quite frankly for most people is probably pretty boring. Fantastic stuff, wow, lots to think about. My special guest is Mike Hancock and we'll be back with him in just a bit.

This is what's involved, so good to have you along with us and we're back with my guest, Mike Hancock, man of man, international man of mystery and many talents. Maybe we should say that but Mike, to get back to what you were saying there and talking about prosperity, freedom, purpose and I like to focus on the South African context. There are so many people out there that are struggling, that are wanting to break free. As I said, there is a shift in consciousness but where does one start? So for example, in terms of what you do, where would you say people should start? I'll give you three practical tips for the audience David and for everybody out there that's listening to this. These are really simple so they're not rocket science. Firstly, Jim Rohn said this but I think Tony Robbins became famous for it but it's a truest truth. You're defined by the five people that you hang out with the most. So guess what? If you look around your inner circle, the people you're hanging out with and they're doomsayers, doubters, distractors, then you don't have a wealth network around you. You have a poverty network around you that's going to keep you stuck. People that you possibly love, they could even be your family, your parents, maybe even your spouse, you need to move them to another relationship with you and you need to bring in different people. It's the same as I say to CEOs and companies who, if they want to change the culture of the company, change 20% of the staff and the culture of the company will change.

So number one is look at the people you're hanging around with most. Number two is a bit of advice my CEO in my corporate days gave me which I thought was fantastic and I took it and it's probably created the life I have now. He said, "Mike, sometimes you've just got to grab on to somebody's coattails, go for the ride and see where it takes you." Now that doesn't mean you grab on to the next big talking, high faluting, rah rah type of person's coattails, but if you resonate with somebody, if you're really feeling them, if your heart warms when you're seeing them or being exposed to them, then look to get some sort of relationship with them where you can learn from them, a mentor relationship, a coach relationship. If you don't have money, give them some time, go and work for them, learn their stuff. I mean, Brad Sugars who ran International Action Coaches, the biggest coaching group in the world, when Brad was 21-22 for two years, he worked for nothing for a good friend of mine, Paul Dunn, who is the founder of Buy One, Give One, probably one of the biggest charity groups in the world. When Paul was in enterprise, Brad followed him around the world and carried his bags and made appointments for him and did all those things. I mean, Brad these days is probably worth in excess of a hundred million dollars. And probably the third bit of advice is literally to just take one step, to just get started, to go and buy a book, to read something, to make a change in your life, to decide you're going to do something differently. A journey isn't the end, a journey is one step at a time and we're all on a journey in life, each and every one of us, including David and myself. So just be prepared to take that next step. You're not standing still, move. Wonderful. Yeah. Well, they do say that a definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

But a lot of people feel overwhelmed by this world, this life that we live in. The simplest things I've been chatting recently to a bunch of people that there seems to be a resurgence of stuff based around the secret, creating your own reality, sort of pulling a new reality into existence. And yet people are still a bit confused about that. Where do you stand on that? In terms of, somebody says to you, oh yes, you can just sort of meditate your way into prosperity. Well, I know Jack Hanfield, I know Marsha Martin, who was actually the lady behind the secret and introduced Rhonda Byrne, who made the secret to Jack and the team at the Transformational Leadership Council. I know a bunch of the people that are there. And I think the film missed the point. So you can sit under a tree all you want and meditate, I need a Ferrari, I need a Ferrari, I need a Ferrari, I need a Ferrari. And guess what? When you wake up, we'll probably be an Italian girl standing in front of you called Anita Ferrari. So it's not necessarily going to work. I think the thing is that what's got to happen is you have to involve the five senses. And that means you've got to smell it, you've got to taste it, you've got to touch it, you've got to hear it, and then you've got to feel it. So that's just part one of this, meaning that when you do your meditation, you have to go right into this. And you also have to be prepared to give it up and give up your dream because only in giving up your dream will you allow the freedom for the universe to deliver it. And then I think the most importantly on that is another little formula that I think is great for people is the word attraction, the law of attraction is actually three words. Attraction comes from if you take the AT at the front, off it has the word traction in it. And if you take the TR off that it has the word action in it. So the basis of all attraction is action. And action creates traction, which creates attraction. So if you want to be, I don't know, the best entrepreneur in the world, then take some action, start doing some things. That doesn't mean sitting there and posting on Facebook hoping somebody will look at you. It literally means make some calls, meet with some people, you probably got no idea what you're saying, but just keep doing it. And then suddenly, you're going to say, hey, this thing's getting some traction. And then suddenly, sometimes somebody's going to be so enamored with you, maybe a work ethic or what you're doing that they're going to come along and lift you up to the next level.

You look at all the great stories, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, you know, Zuckerberg, the list goes on and on and on. That was their model action, traction, attraction. So meditation in itself is a very, very small part of the law of attraction. And equally so, make sure that when you are meditating, that you don't think, oh, I don't want to have a partner who's fat, because guess what, you're going to get a partner who's very overweight. So instead of that, just meditate on somebody who's slim. So be careful of the negatives, because the universe sees no negatives. It's like, again, using Bali. Bali has many, many spiritual philosophies, but there's no good or bad in Bali. There just is the universe works the same way. I doubt that we're talking about this, because as part of my journey, one of the things that I used to be very, very conscious of is, you know, wanting to be on radio and wanting to be on the biggest radio stations and be famous and be adored. And I used to measure my self worth by how many people knew me and about the price of my toys and the clothes, et cetera, et cetera. And it's one of those stories where the universe came knocking. And I always say that, you know, in the beginning, it whispers quietly to you. And then eventually, if you insist on ignoring it, you get a smack upside the head. And it literally took me losing everything, every last thing that I possibly had that society would have said would make me successful for me to sit down and take a little bit of stock of my life and what I'm doing. The strange thing is these days, in terms of financial wealth, money, a lot of people would say I'm not successful. However, I consider myself one of the richest people in the world because I get to get up every day, do what I love in a place that I love with people that I love. Is this part of the journey that you've experienced?

Absolutely. And whilst I haven't experienced your losing everything, you know, I've been pretty lucky in my life. But, you know, my partner and I, we're not materially focused at all. I mean, I literally two weeks ago, we had to buy a car because we've been stuck with COVID in South Africa. We normally travel for eight months a year. So we don't need a car. I haven't had a car in 15 years. So it was a whole experience to, you know, to go to the car dealer and actually buy a car and, you know, go through the sales process and see that it was actually, you know, it was fun to do that. But, you know, true freedom, David, and I think you've expressed it and I say it to this freedom is doing what you want, when you want, wherever you want, with who you want and how you want. And, you know, you've realized now that, you know, you may not be, you know, Howard Stern, for instance, or have a brand, you know, that's quite that big, but you're actually a very well known person by the people that you care to know. And that's much more important. You know, I always wanted to be a rock star, you know, right from the time I was a teenager, I wanted to be a rock star. And, you know, whilst Mick Jagger is 70 something and nearly 80 and still is a rock star. I mean, I'm not that old, but I'm in my fifties. But, you know, from that aspect, it was only probably about seven or eight years ago, I realized, wow, I've actually become a rock star because I go to India and the paparazzi follow me around and I go and talk on stages and lots of people turn up.

And if I want to, I can bring my guitar and play some songs. And, you know, I've actually got fans around the world, but it's not at all what I thought it was going to be. My fans don't chase me. They're actually friends of mine and I love them and they love me. It's a really different vibe than what I thought it would be when I was 20. So, you know, it's careful what you wish for because you do get it if you just do the work and don't get taken off course. And most people, it's like Warren Buffett would tell you this. I mean, he's still in the first house he ever bought. Most people have sold 20 houses and they've still got no money. But if they held on the onto the first house they bought, you know, they'd have it. And I'm one of those. I checked the price point on the first house I ever bought the other day. I bought it for 34,000. It's now worth 1.1 million, you know, but I don't have that house anymore. So we're not defined by what we've got. And I think, you know, anybody who thinks that they've got a long way to go before they become conscious and they've got, you know, they've got some real hard thinking to do when when they get to the other side of this life, because I haven't met a person who's in the last part of dying yet, who said, Mike, I'm so happy I bought a Mercedes and had a had a, you know, 100, 100 room house.

I've never met anybody who's said that. And I don't know of anybody a hospice who's told me anybody who's said that people think about their memories, what they experienced, who they loved, who loved them. That's what's important in this world. I don't know if I've ever shared this on radio, but I'm going to share it now is one of the things that had an incredibly profound effect on my life was my dad passed away. He had heart failure and he was in the ICU and I was sitting with him and he looked at me and he said to me, David, son, one thing I want you to promise me is never do what I did. Never live a life of quiet desperation. And that that stuck with me because it was just one of those things that slapped you upside the head. Yeah, that's a right statement. Wow. I mean, that that is that is like the genius. The purpose of his whole life was almost to tell you that. Yeah, absolutely. I believe that I sincerely do believe that this is what's involved. By the way, my special guest is Mike Hancock. We could probably chat forever. But we're going to take a break when we come back more from Mike. And we're back with my special guest, Mike Hancock. OK, Mike, let's move along because we've glossed over a couple of things. We've highlighted a few things. But if I am now sitting and listening to this, whether it be the radio broadcast or the podcast, and I go, OK, I like what Mike's saying. Where do I where do I start? How would I start to interact with Mike and Circle of Excellence? Is that a place to start?

Your Circle of Excellence is our master company. We've got about, you know, six or seven different brands which sit under the Circle of Excellence umbrella. But somebody can go to Circle of Excellence dot biz, B-I-Z, and simply drop a connection there. Or you can pick me up on LinkedIn, Mike Hancock, H-A-N-D-C-O-C-K. So they're two good places to start. Connect with me on LinkedIn or drop us a note through Circle of Excellence. Happy to answer any questions. Happy to guide you. And if you want to start with a book, you know, you can go to Amazon and pick up one of my books. The most recent one was Conscious Leadership, which went to number one on Amazon last year. We launched it during COVID. And if you're an entrepreneur, you might want to grab a copy of Entrepreneur X Factor, which was also an Amazon number one, which is a co-authored book that landed my part. And I put out that we did 24 case studies of different entrepreneurs in it. So there's some places to start. That sounds wonderful. I'm actually going to, as soon as I'm done chatting to you, I'm going to certainly go and look at Amazon and have a look at some of those things. But so you say you've got different companies. And the one thing I think we need in this in this country is, A, more entrepreneurs, and B, more conscious leaders. So if somebody is thinking about this and they're in a position, a lot of listeners to my show are in the research indicates they're in fairly senior positions. If they're feeling this need to change as well in terms of conscious leadership, I've noticed more and more the term conscious capitalism coming up.

Where would they start? I mean, what is your advice? Get the books. Fantastic. Go to circle of excellence.biz, but some practical advice for somebody that can begin now. Okay. Well, I really think the way you've structured the question, I have to guide them to Amazon to the book conscious leadership, because I think it's going to share a lot. But why I wrote the book is, you know, I've been studying conscious leadership and Forbes magazine and I think about 2016 came out with the best statement for conscious leadership. I've seen it said, it said, conscious leadership is not trying to save the planet. Conscious leadership is the preparedness of a leader to do the deep journey within themselves. So they show up as their truest most authentic self. So, you know, if you've got a lot of listeners that are in, in senior management, then, and, you know, looking to grow themselves, grow their business, or maybe move out entirely, the first step you've got to do is you've got to understand yourself. And, you know, in my life, I found the number one mistake entrepreneurs make, because we work a lot with entrepreneurs is they have no idea who they are. So that would be the first thing is to go and do some work with the coach with a mentor, you know, through one of our programs with us if you feel the need to connect with us, and actually do some deep in work and find out who you are. And you may find out that you're an entirely different person. You know, as a general manager of a financial services company, I can read a pivot table. For those of you that don't know what that is, it's a three dimensional spreadsheet. Boy, talk about boring. But I mean, that's something I never want to have to do again in my life. But I have that ability. And does it fizz me up? No, not at all. But everything I do on my day to day basis makes me excited. So now that I understand who I am, I'm in much better space to use the number one best word you can use in life, which is no, no, I don't want to do that.

No, I'm not going to move there, etc, etc. And then I think for for people is just to really get started. Start small. I didn't leap out of corporate. I manufactured my way out. It took 18 months to do that. So I had a nice package behind me, which allowed me really two years of making mistakes as a self employed person. Lundy, my partner, you know, had eight months before she had to worry about being self employed. So it's not about leaping from the frying pan into the fire. It's about about moving forward. And I think you bring up the word conscious capitalism, let me just give you a quick spin on that. And then you might want to sort of unplug that a bit, David. Conscious capitalism is realizing that in any business dealings, whether you're hiring a new staff member or opening a new product line, there really has to be four wins. We used to hear in the 80s and 90s of a win-win relationship, we know what those are a win for you and a win for the client. But I'm going to add on two more, a win for the community. In other words, a win for the greater good, and also a karmic win as well, meaning that it's just good. So if you look at this, conscious capitalism is probably not investing in the latest methamphetamine factory.

That's for sure. You know, if we put it bluntly, but any product that you're bringing out, looking at what's its social footprint going to be? What's its ecological footprint going to be? What's it going to mean to my staff? What's it going to mean to my existing clients? What's it going to mean to the infrastructure and community around my factories or my shops or whatever? That's really it. So four wins, win for yourself, win for the client, win for the greater good, and also karmic win as well. If you can do that with anything you do, and it doesn't matter whether you're a plumber who owns their own business or the CEO of one of the biggest companies in South Africa listening to this, if you can take that on board in your daily life, you will be creating just a magical world for all of us for the future. And that's what needs to happen. Absolutely. I would agree with you 100%. My special guest is Mike Hancock, entrepreneur, thought leader, mystic. Show me bits and pieces, but no labels. He is just Mike Hancock. This is what's involved. We'll be back with you in just a bit to wrap it up with Mike. And we're back with my guest, Mike Hancock, wrapping it up. Mike, it's been a fascinating chat so far. I feel that we could literally do this once a week regularly and still not cover everything that I certainly would like to cover. So you've got your various products. We've talked about Amazon. We've talked about Circle of Excellence. If somebody goes, "Listen, I like this guy," is this where we could go to connect with you in terms of maybe working with you guys, getting some coaching, finding our purpose? Because a lot of the stress at this stage is people that are going, "Okay, I'm waking up now, but now I have no idea what my purpose is." Absolutely. And before I answer your question, David, I just want to congratulate you. I do a lot of interviews, but the reason why you have such a great following is because the quality of your questions is fantastic and you really get inside the head of the guests that you have. So well done to you for that. And I too have very much enjoyed today's talk. I would literally suggest that if people want to get serious about this, that they drop me a note on LinkedIn and come directly to me and then we can pick up a discussion from there. But it's fascinating with what you're talking about, David, because we've got very high level clients all around the world. And I would think during 2020 and even into 2021, where I'd normally be having a call with a client and talking about their positioning or their marketing or their new product launch or something like that, that I would normally do in my way of helping them with their businesses and their careers. In the last 12 months, I think I've done, and Landy as well, we've done more coaching and more discussions on spirit animals, signs, symbols, God, faith, connection with family, communication with self and purpose than probably in the 10 years before that. So these are the things that are truly important. And I've not yet found a truly great leader who doesn't have a very, very strong sense of self and strong sense of purpose and really knows who they are. So that's absolutely the place to start. And yet I find that most people have no idea who they are. Most people are a conglomerate of imprints and undercurrents that were fed and programmed into them as a child. And during their formative years, my mother told me that all salespeople were criminals. But then I realized, hey, if I want a girlfriend, I have to sell. If I want a job, I have to sell. If I want to get my friends to go to the movies on a Saturday night, I have to sell. So you've got to sell constantly. So these imprints and the worst ones are coming out of media at the moment. And I think we're all aware of how much fake news there is in the world. They're the biggest things holding us back. And the only truth is actually inside each and every one of our own hearts. And so when we find that truth within our heart, then suddenly we don't have to worry about what the world does, because we know the truth inside our own heart. And that guides us. It guides us in our life decisions and our business decisions. And because of that, we'll make better decisions, which means we'll have a much greater quality life, just like you were saying you have. Absolutely. It's interesting. As you were talking now, I was just thinking a couple of weeks ago, I interviewed Pepe-Marie, and he is one of the founders of Joe Public, the ad agency. And he was also very, very clear on what his purpose is, and what Joe Public's purpose is. English David, put your false teeth back in. What Joe Public's purpose is. And for Joe Public, it's growth. And then he breaks down what growth means. And he says, since he's discovered that for himself and for his company, the success and the growth has just been incredible. So I think it's a very, very important place to start. And there's lots of things we could still get into and talk about. Before we end off, though, I'd like to find out from you, Mike, what's next for you? Because you've now been in Cape Town with COVID, and nobody else in the world really wants South Africans to come visit them at the moment. So what's next for you?

Well, we're definitely looking to get back on the road and travel. We did have a trip to Zanzibar book, but then Mango went broken and stymied that one. So we're off to the Kruger National Park for a week very soon. But what's next? We started working on a documentary film. We did it. We launched one in 2010. And that was very successful. And we started working on that prior to COVID. So COVID sort of knocked that one around a little bit. But I think we're in a space where we can really, you know, sail in and get back into that in the next 12 months. And I think that's going to really help people because the movie is called Harmony. And it's about a lot of the things that we've been talking about today. And I mean, Harmony, as Pythagoras said, is, you know, it's the number nine, because everything in music leads to the number nine. Pythagoras was the father of music and mathematics, which Einstein called the only two pure sciences. So we're really looking for people to create inner harmony. And once they have that inner harmony and balance, then they'll truly become more resilient. And that will turn up not only in their mental self, but in their physical self as well, because this won't be the only pandemic that we're faced with in the next 30 years. For sure, that's just this, this is just the beginning of the new world. So we as a species need to become more resilient. So that's what we're looking forward to the most, then writing some new books, I'm writing novels at the moment, I'm working with Dan Brown's editor on my second novel. And that's in the truth seekers series, you'll see the first novel up on Amazon. So I'm enjoying doing doing that. So onwards and upwards, and we're running our companies, and we're meeting lots of great people still from around the world. It's not a week goes by that I'm not having calls with different people around the world. In fact, I'm straight off this call with somebody to somebody from India. So, so that's my life. I love it. And I know you love your life too. And if somebody's watching or listening to this, and they're not loving their life, then time to put a stake in the ground and make a shift. Absolutely. And you got to start somewhere. And I've spoken a lot about this on the show over the last couple of years. It doesn't matter where you start. I always used to expect that I had to have a roadmap that was laid out for me, and a set of instructions neatly written out. It's not like that. Okay, the best way I can think of describing what what living on the fringe is all about is dancing on the edge of chaos and having an absolute blast while you do it. Mike Hancock, thank you so much for having a chat to us. Once again, we do appreciate your time. Thank you, David. Thanks, everyone. There we go. That was my special guest, Mike Hancock, you can find out more about Mike and his businesses what he does at circle of excellence.biz. All go and check it out on Amazon. That's where I'm going. Right after I finish this.

It's Mike Hancock, H-A-N-D-C-O-C-K. Wraps it up for this part of what's involved. To each and every one of you look after yourselves. Take care. And thank you for listening.