Daniela And Leila — Tik Tok, Linkedin,Social media marketing to Gen Z

- Don't worry, you are stressing too much. I will sort her out, okay? She's like-- - Thank you. - It's the fun time of the evening. Is this stuff, I love talking about the investment stuff. Could you just pick a microphone and stick to it, Ms. Bichelli? - I have now. - Are you on that one now? I can't say Ms. Bichelli, 'cause now I've got two Ms. Now I've got one Ms and one Miss, Miss. From Daniela Bichelli International, we're doing social media again tonight. It fascinates me, it fascinates me where this world is going. So much of it, I don't understand. And the last time you were on, I was about to ask you a question and you made these, like, don't, cutting motions again, don't ask me about that. And I was, 'cause I was very, very curious. And afterwards you were like, I don't even know just yet. What that was, is it something called TikTok, which I didn't understand for the life of me. - Yes, I needed to make sure of a couple of facts. But now we've got the facts right here with us because we have the other Bichelli. Leila Bichelli, hello, Leila. - Hello, David. - Good to see you here. You're gonna need to sit comfortably, grab that microphone, get it nice. I'll make the noise, that's fine.

There you go, just get it nice and close. It's like an ice cream, okay? If you can't lick it, you're too far away, but please don't lick it. Just, you know, it's a bit gross. So we're talking social media this evening, along with Daniela and Leila. Are we gonna start off with TikTok, can we? Because I'm absolutely fascinated because initially I thought it's just a bunch of... Sorry, Leila, I don't include you in this. It's a bunch of damn kids lip-syncing to stupid songs I don't understand. But apparently, apparently I am way, way wrong, hey?

- Well, David, it depends how you look at the stats. 'Cause stats don't lie. - I don't know, have you ever heard the saying you get lies, damned lies, and statistics? - Yeah, but let me dive straight in, is that okay? - Absolutely, please do, so talk to me about TikTok. - All right, so most people are aware that TikTok is a platform where there is music that is involved with people dancing, and some people refer to it as cringy content. But TikTok's 50 to 60-second video club video clips. - Yeah, the little clips, yeah. - Oh, it's making it so popular, especially with the younger generations. And what we're seeing is an increase in consumer-generated content that is actually assisting marketers and brands out there, and that is the secret source when it comes to really depositing your marketing if it's into TikTok. So just as an example, creators will pull back on YouTube in favor of social and live streaming platforms. And this is one of the reasons why this is such a, Generation Z is such a lucrative market on TikTok, because it's these short video moments that are actually encouraging users all over the world to join the platform more and more. - This is massive, it's growing. I saw some of the stats about the way it's growing.

It's stupid the way it's growing at the moment. - Absolutely, absolutely. And TikTok's massive engagement numbers with view counts, often numbering in the millions, highlights why the social platform is appealing to markets. So like a little example is Mac Cosmetics. Mac Cosmetics worked with three or four, that it was three TikTok influences last year, September, right? - Yes. - Okay, for a hashtag challenge, and the campaign was called You Own It. David, over six days, a total of 635,000 videos were created by users, okay, with an approximate total of 1.6 billion video views. - Now that's billion with a B, okay, billion views. - Exactly, so the key really from a marketing department's viewpoint is to understand how to get the users that are currently engaged on the platform to advocate what they are selling. - This is weird, I subscribe to a lot of marketing stuff. I get a lot of stuff from the international marketing guys. - Yes. - Even Roxy's face that everybody loves so much. - You're going back to Gary Vee. - Yes, Gary Vee. - I knew it, you loved it, Gary. - Guys, if you're not on all social media, platforms, you're nowhere. And I wanted to mail him back the other day, but he doesn't answer my mails for some weird reason.

(laughing) Going Mr. Vaynerchuk, really TikTok, but the guys are doing massive stuff with TikTok. Leila, I mean, you're a, what do you call these people? I know they're children, but what do you call them? Generation Z. - Generation Z. - Generation, so you're a, but you can't say Generation Z, 'cause it's Generation Z, apparently. - I was told the other day. - That's true, but we are in SA, you know. (laughing) - Have you seen TikTok? I mean, would you do a TikTok? Is that what you call it? Do you do a TikTok? - Yes, he is. - They are TikTokers. - Make a TikTok. Make a TikTok. - Yeah. - Personally, I wouldn't, but I do sometimes watch it because it can be relatable. And I think that's one of the reasons, plus the fact that most of the settings on TikTok are very simplified, so it makes the job easier and more addictive, if that makes sense. - A lot of people have said that you start this and you go, "That's such a dumbass video, then." - But this is the thing. - And then two hours later, you're still watching those dumbass videos. So that's weird. - But this is the thing, David, and this is why it's so powerful for marketing because you can do anything from hashtag challenges, right through to brand takeovers.

Advertisers are used utilizing TikTok's unique ad formats, which are amazing. What you said as well, which I've noticed, and I've noticed more and more people are going this way, is YouTube is apparently, people are going away from YouTube. There are some people that are, I'm not some, a lot of people still on YouTube, but the engagement and the whole thing, they're starting to go, "No, we don't want it." And apparently, and you've told me this, that I need to livestream, and I looked at you with shock and horror, but you've said to me as well that that live streaming is the way to go. And apparently YouTube makes live streaming very difficult. This is what I hear. I don't know. I'm trying not to jump around too much in the brief that you gave me. I'm now at the line where it says, "Creators will pull back on YouTube." - Well, the thing is, you've got these empirical moments, you've got these live stories, you've got these live moments. So why go and pre-record content? As in any event, other generations are steering towards more authentic moments. And you will find that the younger generations are now also starting to get more comfortable taking content of themselves and creating content of themselves in their own environments and attempt to connect better with the end viewer, with the people that are within their target audiences.

- 'Cause as I, sorry to interrupt, but as I understand it, because of TikTok's ease of use and it's sort of, I don't know, is the word funkiness? I don't know, but it's something that the generations have really latched onto because, I mean, the thought of me getting up and doing a silly dance frankly horrifies me. And if you ever tell me that as my personal communication brand manager, I will be very grumpy. - I'll get you one day. - Don't TikTok nothing. - But the thing is with the strategy behind TikTok, a proper TikTok social media strategy, you really can have massive market penetration into the younger youth groups. - But this again is for brands that all, I mean, Mac is designed, you know, they wanna target younger people. - For beauty, makeup, use. - Yeah, beauty, makeup, those kind of things. - But I mean, there's still space for YouTube. I mean, if you think about it, a video creator will earn approximately $2,000 for every million views of their content on YouTube. So YouTube's not going anywhere. - I don't think it is, but I think they're changing. And I think they're very, very strict. I still, listen, it's taken me so long to embrace technology. I still endure, endure, endure.

But don't worry, I'm running in a pair of lips for us. - We're also going through that. It's been a long Monday. - I still enjoy YouTube. I must be honest. I do watch a lot of things on YouTube. But video in general, it's just, it's going ballistic. - It's exploded, it's absolutely exploded. I mean, even if you, sorry to switch over from TikTok to IG to Instagram again, but I mean, Instagram TV videos also appearing four times larger than photos on the explore option with an Instagram. This gives a user so many options to penetrate other people's content. - Can you see this dog look on my face? - So IGTV, so Instagram TV. Right, so for those live moments we were talking about, such as on Facebook, those are the, that's a type of marketing technique that is noticeably gaining more traction and definitely getting more results in social media marketing at the moment. - Yeah, but let's, can I step back to TikTok? - Let's go. - 'Cause you told me some stats about people who are following and followers and all sorts of things. It's page one. (laughing)

- I'm reminding myself. And the reason there's so many distances, I'm hiding away so she doesn't hit me. You know, I might be Italian. - I hit you, I hit you in the face one time. - No, just say that never. Okay, let's go.

- No, it just, it amazes me that, I mean, can I show you some of them and sound like I know a lot? - Please go for it. - Okay, I've gotta find it. (laughing) - You're so funny. Yeah. - But apparently, sort of, Lauren Gray. Is Lauren Gray a brand or a person? - Well, anybody that's a person that has social influence automatically becomes a brand. - Oh, am I a brand? I'm just not-- - I'm not saying that you are brand new. - I'm just not brand new. (laughing) Okay, but 34.8 million followers. - Yes, on TikTok. - On TikTok, 38. I was sitting just now bragging to the guys from Global and Local Investment about my 50,000 social media reach. - And I was quite proud of you. - And I was like, Amy, 34.8 million. - And also, I mean, that's followed by Baby Ariel, who has 29.8 million followers. You could think, well, how are we gonna work with Baby Ariel? Well, I'm telling you, there's always a way and a gap to find with influencers to get your products out there, if they are to be marketed to younger target audiences. - Listen, TikTok is gonna be big, one way or another. It's already big in this country, but it's growing. I've just recently purchased some software to use with some of my social media clients that I can share across multiple platforms, et cetera, et cetera.

Part of that, built-in, is TikTok, built-in. So when you do it, you gotta start TikTok-ing or whatever it's called, TikToks. - Absolutely, you gotta create TikToks. - Yeah. - Yeah. - But it's a nice thing about it. And like Leila touched on now about it being very easy to edit and use. Like young people are adept at using digital tools now for self-expression. I mean, even the older generations, right? And TikTok is just one of the many several apps that give them a canvas to be creative. So this is what's inspiring them to create this type of content. And TikTok inspires users to not only watch and engage on videos, but like I said, to create that content. So this gives brands, for example, an entirely new approach to getting the product seen through this UGC, this user-generated content. And that is the key with TikTok, is to tap into the TikTok social influences that can spread the messages for your brands. - I'm fascinated about this. There's so much information. Can I ask, when I publish this particular version of the podcast, may I publish the notes as well? Or a version of the notes? - Yes, you may, of course. - Show notes. - With absolute pleasure. - Show notes, I'll credit you.

- You don't even have to- - No, I will, I will. It'll be tiny and in the corner, but I will. (laughing) - I'm a miniscule as fuck. I don't need anything to do more than welcome, if it adds value to your viewers. - There's a lot of stuff in here, and I think this is great. For anybody who's trying to grow a business or a brand on social media. And one of the things that I've been trying to get across to people, 'cause I firmly believe this, is social media is vital to any marketing plan these days, as well as the use of video content. And I've just had, I've got a client now who is in the real estate business. And sadly, they were doing really well, and the exposure was growing, and then they go, but surely this is not so hard. So we got an email to go, listen, I think I can do this by myself. So I replied going, this is why I don't think you should do it by yourself just yet. And there's a reason we do everything we do, but-- - It's a lot of work, it's a lot of work. - Somebody's gonna get to realize that. But it is a lot of work, but they then going, but then maybe if you could just do of your four funny, fancy images, maybe just four a month. And I'm like, that is not even close to what you need to be doing.

- Yeah, it's gotta be consistent without a doubt, otherwise you're just wasting your time. It's not gonna have any impact. And bearing in mind that most algorithms need affinity as a measure to get your organic content viewed and noticed, yeah. - Because that's the difference between, 'cause a lot of times people say to me, yeah, but this particular thing only got 10 likes or 15 likes or 100 likes or whatever the case may be. - Those vanity metrics. - But it's the reach that they don't understand. - This is the thing, this is the thing. So I mean, previously we'd say return of investment is really return of influence. And that is really the whole aspect of social media marketing is really generating relationships, building them, nurturing them. We recently discussed about social media marketing being a two-way street. On Instagram, for example, when people comment on photos, it's the perfect opportunity for brands out there to respond. The more you respond to comments or even react to a comment on your social media platform, the more that the content is seen as hot by that particular network because there's engagement on that content piece. So it really serves to react in engagement.

But also another thing, I mean, the short-form video is definitely increasing in popularity. And yeah, I mean, do you remember Vine? - Yeah, but I never got that. - Yeah, but I never got Vine. - I never got Vine, I did see a bit about it, I never got it. But Vine's kind of been gone, harvested the grapes. - Exactly. - End of story. - Exactly. - Where are we now? What is big at the moment? TikTok is big, but it's not big with yet, it's big with Gen Zs, but not with businesses so much. I mean, are we still Facebook, Twitter? Twitter seems to fall a bit by the wayside though. - Twitter is a very powerful social media engine. It is extremely powerful. And I can advocate that for my own experience with clients. It is absolutely powerful if it is used correctly. I love the idea that you can absolutely connect with anybody in the world. - And then Instagram, of course, is something else? - Yeah, of course. But I mean, in terms of social power and social signals to Google, you can't go wrong with Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn as an example. I'd also like to talk about LinkedIn if that's okay from one end of the spectrum. - Can we talk about that when we come back? - Absolutely. - Fantastic.

I think it's time for some music. And what we're gonna do while we're playing this music is I'm going to ask Leila what other songs any potential Gen Z listeners would like. - Yay! - Are you good with it? - I'll try. - Are you good? - I'll try. - Otherwise, you can just choose, you can choose some Alzheimer's music and blame me. It's fine. Anyway, anyway you wanna go. Listen, I wanted to chat to you Leila because you're of that age and it's one thing that I've noticed is because you guys and young people are on social media so much all of the time,

obviously marketing to Gen Z is important. I mean, these guys are on there. There's people, I've seen people, maybe there's even Tik Tokers now that make a fortune. People 18, 20, 16, 17, 20, they're making a fortune online, all right? And these are the people that you'd wanna be talking to. So as a, I'm really uncomfortable saying that as a Gen Z-er, as a person from Gen Z. Can I say as a young person, can I do that? What do brands need? How would I need to talk to you, okay? So you got old fart over here. How would I talk and engage your guys? - Well, firstly, you'd need to follow the latest trends. If whether that's with fashion, books, gaming, it would be anything that's trending today with influencers or anything like that. And yeah, it's mainly trending. - How do I find that though? Would I ask you? How do you find if it's trending? (Leila laughs) - So basically we also, part of the New Liberty International is we offer current trends. When clients come through to us and say, okay, Leila, for example, we need to target Generation Z or we need to target the millennial sector. We find out about those targets and the penetration and we devise and Leila assists with devising a strategy for the youth marketing campaign.

- All right, so just so we clear, Leila is also part of Daniela Bichelli and she does a whole bunch of work there as well. - Absolutely. Okay, so one of the things that I need to ask, and I've seen this happen time and time again, this whole social media thing, there comes a different kind of peer pressure, comes a different kind of bullying and people can be, and it's not just for the younger people. I mean, people somehow think that because you're on social media, you've got a right to be an absolute idiot and you can say the worst things to people. We see it at the radio station, just the liberties that people take. I don't know if Kaz has ever had it. Maybe it's just my winning personality that gets it. But people get damn nasty. It's something that would never necessarily say to your face, but because they have this invisible barrier, they think they can say what they like. Am I barking up the right tree here? - Yeah, I honestly don't agree with it at all. I think it's wrong. And for anyone to judge imperfections, it is not okay in any way because that is actually what makes you beautiful, is your imperfections. And whoever judges that, it's not okay. And I really hope that this stops as it is a worldwide challenge.

- Because I mean, we've got, no, you haven't met our little blondie at home yet. Chanel went through a whole phase on Instagram and people just climbed into it, but then there was almost this pressure for her to look a certain way and behave a certain way. Have you found that? - Yes, I've also, I've experienced it many times. Most people define how happy they are, how beautiful they are on the amount of likes they get. And I think that is a big problem. And even this year, they have implemented a new rule where they want to take out the likes because it is creating a lot of insecurity

amongst teenagers, because they feel that they have to look a certain way because their influencer is looking as such. And you're not yourself when it's actually about putting your own things online and being you. And that's what I wish people would see a bit more. - So, I mean, if you're feeling good, if you're online, are you saying I'd like for you, you would then go, "Listen, I'm Leila. This is who I am." - If you don't like my content, you're more than welcome to unfollow me. - You see, I do something very similar on the radio. Okay, you do know where the off button is. Feel free to use it. But I mean, this is the thing. I mean, no, seriously, and Daniella, you're involved in this as well. Teens have committed suicide over this stuff. - Tick, tick, tick, tick. Mental health issues arising out of vanity metrics, especially amongst teens and also millennials. And yeah, beyond that, that's why one of the reasons why Instagram is taking away the vanity metrics this year is because of all the mental health issues surrounding body shaming and just plain nastiness. And yes, it is increasingly causing more cyber bullying. It's causing more depression. It's causing more suicide rates to happen.

So that is why we really need to, and this is why, and Leila is so headstrong about helping to change that. Because that is the challenge that is worldwide happening on social media. It's too perfect. - Well, what is a vanity metric? He says headbutting his microphone. - So it's anything that counts alike. So in- - So if you have a picture of you with like guppy lips or party lips or duck, what do they call it? Duck lips or whatever. - So you need some kind of engagement. - Yes, party genylips. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I mean, if you do that, you measure how cool you are by how many people like it. I am so going to stop liking doggy and kitty posts on Facebook tomorrow. - But David, you see, so that's one of the things that Instagram are going to enforce right now this year. But apart from that, they're also doing that to encourage people whose content is not producing as well as what it should for them to have the ability and more courage to create better content, if that makes sense. - But then how do you know whether you're doing well or not? Or should you- - Through the amazing insights that each social media platform gives you as a user. So if you've got an Instagram account for a brand- - Have I, have I got it?

- I'll set it up for you. I'll help you. - I think I've got an Instagram account. - The insights will guide you. Your analytics will guide you. All the more data will measure where you perform high and low performance areas or online. - Okay, so it would be like, for example, on Facebook, it doesn't matter how many likes, but you can then view what your post reaches. - Basically in a nutshell use. - Okay, so your mission Leila at the moment is teens and young people accepting themselves. - Yes, definitely. - But what happens? I mean, 'cause to me, it's such a great area. If you do get cyber bullied, what do you do? I mean, a lot of people go, "Oh, if you ran to mommy, you're a big fat baby." But how do you deal with it? 'Cause I mean, it's easy for me as me to go, "I don't care, I just don't care." - But some people do. - But I mean, when I was younger, certainly if this was around when I was younger, I would have cared. - That's cruel. - I would have cared. So how do we do this? Cyber bullying, I mean, this is the thing. - Well, firstly, I think that everybody needs to understand that it is not okay because nobody on this planet is perfect. And that's one thing people need to start seeing.

Also, you can't always control what happens. There's drama everywhere, and it all depends on how you react to it, which is the most important part. Such as in my case, if I was getting cyber bullied, I would block that person's username, their number, et cetera, et cetera. I won't even entertain it. - Can you report it? - Yes, you can. I would report it immediately. - And is it worthwhile, I would guess it would be to talk to your parents about something like that? 'Cause kids can be mean, man. - Very, very. - They can seriously be mean. I don't know if it's, is it happening here in South Africa? This whole, like in the States, they did this, you know, when you got the girlfriend and then, you know, you get a topless snap of the girlfriend, you break up, and then suddenly you get pictures of-- - Okay, and I'd like to touch on that. That's called revenge porn right there. (laughing) - Is there actually a word, a term for this? - Yeah, for sure, it's revenge porn. - I don't want to necessarily wrap up on revenge porn. I don't want to wrap up on revenge porn. So, maybe, can we, yeah. - Sorry, David. There are the on your constitutions in place that are addressing things such as revenge porn.

The reason for me saying that is, if anybody has ever done anything but out there, which I think is quite normal for most people, they can be a bit assured that if somebody does share content of yourself that you have not given permission to, they can go to jail for it. - Really, and not just Facebook jail? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, this is serious stuff. Things have changed tremendously. - By the way, gentlemen, that are listening tonight. - Hard those nudies away. - No, no, no, no, hang on, hang on. No matter what anybody has told you. No matter what anybody, gentlemen, stop interrupting when I'm interrupting. Generally, sending somebody a picture of your junk is not in the least bit sexy or attractive. I don't know who told you it was. Okay, I don't know if you think it's a thing. Okay, I don't know as a way to introduce yourself. It's not, okay. It's really, really not. You know, it's just no. Men are generally there, no. Okay, I'm glad we've spoken about this. I've gotten it off my chest. Leyla, to wrap up, in terms of Gen Zs, you know, and it's easy for me. I make these judgment calls. I go, millennials, Gen Zs, bunch of pansy wissies crying. Don't remember. - Beautiful. (laughing) - But you're not.

And I think that's important. I think you are much more, much, much more in touch, in tune, than a lot of people would give you credit for. What message would you give to anybody that's gonna either be listening to this particular show or listening to the podcast? What would you say? - Well, I hope that after this, people start to accept their imperfections and see that it is who you are. And that is the most beautiful part of being imperfect. - Okay, cool. Fantastic. Daniela, Leyla, thank you so much for coming in. - Thank you so much. - Daniela, we'll have you back in another month or so. Talk some more social media. Slowly but surely you will be able to teach this dinosaur what is what. Next up, Kaz. And she's got a great show lined up for you. Jazz, no, blues. Are you gonna be smooth tonight? Smooth bluesy, yeah? Awesome. And an interview. Kaz will be telling you more about that. I'm up and out of here. I did bank some extra minutes in the preceding few weeks, so maybe she'll forgive me for tonight. We'll catch you again next Monday, another edition of What's Involved. Before I go, one last thing. Thank you for listening.