Chef Zola Nene — Chef, Author, Business Owner, Gordon Ramsay Survivor

What's involved is my special guest, I've wanted to talk to her for a while and I've only really got to see her a little while in stop and go motion. We'll talk about that in a bit as well though, but my special guest, welcome to you, Zola Nene. How are you? I am so, so well. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to talk to you and I'm excited that you've been excited to talk to me. Well, you know what, let's explain, let's go right in and then we'll find out a little bit more about Zola. We got invited or I got invited to the virtual launch of Gordon Ramsay Uncharted Season 2 and in it there was a young lady by the name of Zola and she was working with the grumpy Brit and I thought, well number one, take my hat off to you for working with him and I'm wondering how bad that was, but number two, just the way that you put stuff together and I've been seeing and it's been popping up all over the place is more and more of Zola Nene. So let's talk about Zola. Tell me a bit about your background and how you got into this whole sheffing business. Well, yeah, okay, so it's a bit of a long story but I'm going to give you the condensed version or as condensed as I could make it. I was born in KZN and my family actually moved to Georgia and I was six years old so I actually did my schooling in Georgia.

After school, I decided I wanted to be a lawyer because I was very talkative and very argumentative so I thought perfect career choice. I studied law or become law for about two years. In my second year, I actually realized, actually I don't love this and what kept ringing in my head is my dad saying, "Whatever you choose to do, make sure you love it because you do it for more than half your life." So I thought, okay, I'm just going to let him know that actually I don't think I'm going to be a lawyer and without hesitation, in the middle of my second year exams, my dad said, "Stop what you're doing. Don't do anything that makes you unhappy for longer than you have to. Come home and let's discuss what actually makes you happy." So I went home and we had discussion. My dad asked me, "What makes you happy without you even thinking about it? When you're doing it, you're just so happy." And I said, "I love to cook," and he was like, "Okay, well, let's explore that." I guess that's where my chef in Korea started before I was qualified. So he sent me off to the UK. Back then, you could do a two-year working holiday visa just to explore and to work in kitchens and to see if I actually enjoyed it.

So I worked at a brasserie in the UK in Cheshire. For two years, worked my way up, I started peeling carrots, peeling potatoes, doing all the mundane work, but I did it with such enthusiasm that they sort of found confidence to give me bigger jobs and bigger roles, and I worked my way up. And by the time I left there, two years later, I was ahead of pastry section. Then I was like, "Yeah, this is exactly what I want to do. I love being in the kitchen. I love to cook." So I wanted to study. And the reason why I wanted to study, even though it's a practical career choice, because your practical knowledge is more important than your actual book knowledge, I knew that it was like a male-dominated industry. So I knew that I wanted to have the qualification so that whatever kitchen I walked into that was headed by a male chef, no matter what he thought of me as a female wanting to do this, he had to call me "chef." So I wanted to have that respect and that foot in the door before I even walked in the door. So I came home. I studied culinary arts at the Institute of Culinary Arts in Stellenbosch. I studied for three years. I specialized in food media, which is how I sort of got into the TV sphere, the food styling sphere of the industry.

I then worked at catering after studying. I worked at Top Building Magazine back then. Yeah, and that's pretty much how I got to know the producers of Xpresso, which is my very first TV gig. Yeah, and I wasn't actually intending to be on TV at Xpresso. The producers sort of saw something in me, and she was like, "You have to go on screen." And I was like, "Oh, okay. That's not what I signed up for, but fine." And yeah, I didn't go on screen for seven years. I was a resident chef for Xpresso for seven years. And then after that, I sort of built my brand, started my own business, worked for myself, and Gordon Ramsey and Tautin came along last year. Well, it was a very quick summary. Thank you for that. I just tried to condense it for you. But it's very condensed because you've managed to fit a fair amount of living in your time, and you gloss over a couple of things. And let's talk a little bit about you came back from the UK, and you got to work. When you got back in early 2007, you got to work with some great chefs in this country as well, didn't you? Absolutely. Yes, I got to work with the likes of Marho Yancer, who at the time when I met her, I was working with her. And actually today, she's still a really good big part of my life and a really great mentor.

Back then, she was one of the only female chefs in the industry, and she was number one. Her restaurant was number one. The Cartier Francais in Franciault was actually number one. And yeah, I got to meet her during that time and work under her and just what an incredible bit of a woman to have the opportunity to have worked with at such an early part of my career. I also got to work with Chris Erasmus, who's also an amazing food genius. And he taught me so, so many things, also still a really big mentor of mine today. Yeah, I mean, in my career, I've now got to work with Dora C. Tolle, who is, I mean, the mother of South African cooking, if you ask me. And yeah, I get to call her not only a friend, but yeah, just such an inspiration as well. So I've had, I've had, I can't even speak now, I've had the opportunity to work with so many local, amazing, amazing chefs. And I'm so grateful. You know what, I've, I love food and I, well, if you, if you were to see me, it would be obvious that I love food, but I love things food related as well. And I, you know, I'm, I'm just impressed because it seems to me that just over the last little while South Africa is coming into its own in terms of our cuisine, in terms of our chefs and the people, am I correct or not?

No, absolutely. You are so correct. The fact that, you know, the African narrative is such a prevalent topic right now in the world. I think it has also played a part in giving South Africans the confidence to speak so confidently about our food and what we're about and how diverse we are and actually wear it as like a badge of honor instead of trying to pinpoint. I think the problem was that we were always trying to pinpoint our cuisine as one thing. And how can it be when, you know, the country is so eclectic and diverse and consists of so many different types of people and cultures, et cetera. So now we're just embracing the fact that we are so colorful and finally the world is listening and actually going, Oh, actually it is cool. It's cool that you guys are so different and that, yeah, within your own circle, you're so different that I love that. I love that, you know, more chefs are drawing on local inspiration. I mean, myself, I've always cooked from a point of nostalgia and referenced the type of food that my grandmother and my mom taught me how to cook and using, you know, indigenous ingredients, but using them in different ways and maybe reimagining them for people. So I think that it's really cool.

It's really cool that South African food is actually finally in the spotlight. And I think that the spotlight is only going to grow. I agree with you. And you know, what I find so amazing about food, and it's always struck me, particularly in terms of the South African context, is food brings people together. And if anything, if anything, in this country of ours, we need to bring people together because, you know, there's just so much, you know, there's such a big divide between people, but yet if we get to sit down around a bra, you know, a little bit of, let me, let me, let me exercise my Rosebank accent, a little bit of chisanama. That didn't sound very Rosebank-y, did it? But you know what I'm saying, you know, with different people and experience different foods. I've been fortunate enough that I've experienced quite a few different foods and specifically amongst the sort of African flavors, there's some of the foods that I absolutely love and others I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. But you have to try everything, don't you? I don't know about everything because, but I think that you should give stuff a try. And I agree with you because I think that the reason why I love food is because it is such a unifier.

It's such a connector between people, between cultures, between countries, and actually through food, you kind of realize how, how much we have in common more than we don't. Because even though, you know, different dishes are interpreted very differently depending on your culture and your background, some of the fundamental ingredients are very similar. So you might taste something that sounds very foreign to you, for example, a lot of people that came to the virtual cooking class like you did to launch Uncharted made chakalaka for the very first time. But there's something about it that's still very familiar. So you may not have tasted all of that in combination as a dish, but you know, tasting the curry flavor will probably trigger something, you know, from your childhood, some emotive place in you. You know, the baked beans in the dish will also trigger, you know what I mean? So I love how food is so recognizable in different ways by so many different people. I must tell you, I mean, I've got very bad internet connection where I am. So when we were doing that virtual launch, I literally logged on and I only saw you in fits and starts. However, however, afterwards, we went, nope, we are going to do this chakalaka thing because I had never made chakalaka in my life.

And I'll tell you, it's fast, kind of moved right up on our menu. I mean, the other day, my fiancee went, I'm going to make chakalaka again. And I'm like, okay, that's fine. Oh, I love it. Very nice the first time. And literally, we had that as a little dish with some ciabatta, absolutely brilliant. And we loved it. And I'm like thinking, you know, we spent so much time going, I don't know what that is. What's chakalaka? It doesn't sound like it could be cool. It's like accha as well. You know, you kind of go, I don't know, who wants to use bits of green mango, and I don't know. And then you have it and it's actually not bad at all. But you've been very modest about things so far. So I tell you what, Chef Zolinene, when we come back, let's talk a little bit more about you and the things that you've done, because you've glossed over the Espresso morning show that you were on. I want to talk about that because that is a nightmare time to get up and work. I know I've been there. So we'll talk about that when we come back. It is what's involved. My special guest is Zolinene back with you in just a bit. And we're back. What's involved? Zolinene joining us as we talk, all things food related.

And sitting here telling you again, I'm like, oh, we should have cooked something again. But anyway, talk to me about Espresso because you seem to me, when I was at the launch, you guys and you were taking the questions and everything, you're very comfortable behind the camera. I am. Yes, I am now. And that is down to my experience on Espresso, I mean, it is a live morning show. And yes, like you mentioned, the early mornings were really, really tough, especially in the beginning when the show was, you know, it would start at 5am and I'd be up by 3am. And I was the only person on the food department. I was cooking, I was, you know, shopping, I was doing it all. But thankfully over the years, it got divided amongst, you know, more people. But yeah, you know, I, I owe, you know, Patience Stevens was the one who sort of saw me one day because actually, let me just start at the beginning. When I joined Espresso, I was intending to be food stylist sort of behind the scenes. So you know, organizing the chefs, the content, writing recipes, arranging for, you know, guest chefs to come on the show and cook their stuff. And I was sort of, you know, prepping behind the scenes, all that stuff, right?

Then one day, one of the meetings, Patience Stevens sort of looked at me across the table and she was like, "You, I need you to be on air." And I was like, "Uh, no, that's not what I signed up for." Because, you know, argumentative me, just couldn't say yes, couldn't say yes. And I think we sort of argued back and forth about it for about a month. And I just profused. I was like, "No, that's not what I signed up to do. I've never done TV before. There's never my intention." Anyway, so I got tired of arguing. I was like, "You know, I'm fine. I'm just gonna prove you wrong. I'll do one show and then it'll be awful and then, you know, we'll move on from this moment." And I did that one show and I never got off air for seven years. So clearly she is known to have like an eye for spotting talent. I mean, all the toppling, Michael Mall, Bassetana, Ursula, all of them, Jeannie, Yanez, all of them were spotted or found by Patience Stevens herself. So she clearly has a knack for spotting out talent. So yeah, so I did live television for seven years and I guess that sort of, yeah, put me in a comfort zone and it brought out something in me that I obviously didn't know that I had. But I've always loved to sort of share knowledge and using food as a medium is a no brainer because it's what I'm, you know, I'm happiest doing.

So you know, combining the two has been so amazing. And yeah, I appreciate the compliment of you saying that I look very comfortable behind the camera. Yeah. I like to think that I am. Well, I would like to think so right now. I'll be doing it for a really long time. Well, you might certainly, I mean, I often joke and say I have a face for radio and a voice for print media. But if you put a camera anywhere near me, I fall apart, I turn into an absolute blithering idiot. I'll talk to, I'll talk to you, I'll talk to five people, I'll talk to 10,000 people. No problem. Put a camera in my face. Done. Finished. Game over. That's the weirdest thing. Tell me, we're not going to go into detail, but there were a couple of interesting things that happened during your time at Espresso because live TV doesn't really give you much room for mistakes in areas, does it? No, because yeah, because it is live and I guess actually I think that that's an advantage. I think people always think, oh no, you know, it's dreaded live television. If I say anything terrible, it's, you know, I can never forget it again. And the joy actually of live television is that you can't overthink things because once it's over, you're moving on to the next and you keep rolling on.

So it sort of, it gives your personality a chance to sort of shine through because you're not bombarded by, oh wait, I can do it again or stop. You know what I mean? When you're doing pre-records, you seem to make more mistakes because you're very aware that you have another chance. I think that live television keeps you on your toes and keeps your mind moving at a really rapid rate, which is really great. But to say that, yeah, we've all had our on-air blunders, many of them. I actually, you know, I probably had so many over the seven years, I can't even remember all of them. Or maybe I've just subconsciously blocked them out. Yeah, but you know what, it's the kind of thing that I suppose you learn off to a while. You got to kind of embrace your mistakes and your imperfections and go, yep, that was it. That happened. Absolutely. And everyone's human and I think that the people watching are very aware that it's live television. So they too become a little bit more relaxed about receiving the content and the small errors that they witnessed. So it's all good. And I've done a lot of early morning radio stuff, so also very, very early mornings. How did you maintain with that? Because have you ever been late?

Late, no, but I was exhausted for at least the first three years. I was completely exhausted because no matter how long you waking up at three o'clock for, your body fights it all the time. People think that you get into a routine and you get, you know, your body clock adjusts no because I mean, chemically your brain and your body is doing things at that hour that require you to be asleep. So you know, inherently you're fighting yourself the whole time. So I was never late, but I remember at the very beginning, I was still living in Scallambosh and driving through at about three in the morning. And some days I think that I was on such an autopilot that I actually wouldn't remember going to sleep waking up and getting to the studio and only at about 11 o'clock, I would sort of pop into, oh my gosh, I've been working for the past five hours. It was like that feeling, which is very unsettling, but I guess it's survival mode and it's hard. It's hard, as you know, to be awake and to be functional at that hour, but you know, someone's got to do it. Yeah. And we often talk, I mean, people know that, you know, a chef's life is not for the faint-hearted because it is. It's incredible amounts of work.

It's an incredibly long day, depending if you're running a restaurant or how things work like that. But now I have to ask, I'm trying not to ask, but I have to. You were very polite. I was working with Gordon. Is he as grumpy and mean as everybody says he is? That is the number one question that everyone has on their lips. Well, I am very excited to report and continue to report that I met a very pleasant, pleasant, personable, engaging Gordon Ramsey. I was expecting, just like everyone else, to meet the Hell's Kitchen version, who would swear at me on site, and you know, I can get feisty with the rest of them. So I was ready and prepared to, you know, to lash out in the way that I took it. But no, he was a happy medium between Hell's Kitchen Gordon and MasterChef Junior Gordon. So MasterChef Junior Gordon is very fluffy, polite, lofty, and just, you know, jovial with the kids. And Hell's Kitchen, we all know, is a tyrant. I met a happy medium who, you know, he still swore every now and then, but he was also equally very happy. And I think that Uncharted brings out that side of him, just because he's so used to being in charge of a kitchen and, you know, people coming into his kitchen and learning from him.

So he has that authority role, whereas on Uncharted, he's going into places that he knows nothing about. And you know, the shifts that he meets up with are his life line. And it's, you know, he's a student, he becomes the student and he has to learn. And I must say, he takes it on like such a champion. I mean, that man is, first of all, very, very talented in what he does, in cooking. But his TV presence is also just, I was in awe, just watching, he's like a one take one day. It's incredible to watch. But yeah, he was lovely. He was lovely. I hate to disappoint everyone and tell, and not tell you that he was, you know, a swearing machine, throwing things. But he really wasn't. He was lovely. Wonderful. Now, I mean, he's obviously he's been here before, there's times that he was here, it's publicized, there's times that it hasn't been publicized. But in terms of the food, because that's what that's what the show basically is about, when he goes to all of these different countries. Now we're kicking off when Uncharted starts with you and Gordon. So what did you cook and how did he react to some of the more traditional food? So I guess South Africa in comparison to if you look at season, some of the things that he experienced there is actually pretty, pretty, pretty tame, pretty tame in terms of the food that we eat and stuff.

It won't have been anything. Well, they wouldn't have seen stuff that he'd never seen before, but it wasn't like, you know, sort of an Asian country where you're eating snakes type of thing. So the menu that we created together obviously was influenced by what all the things that we've learned. I am Zulu. And obviously we wanted to teach him a bit about Zulu cuisine and about KZN and the fusion of Indian cuisine as well as, you know, as the province. But also we were cooking ultimately for a chief, a really prominent chief in KZN. So that was the ultimate goal. And the goal was to make sure that he enjoyed the meal that we presented to him. So he influenced the dishes that we chose in the end because the chief loves fish. So we knew, okay, fish must be on the menu. He loves meat. He loves, you know, some traditional Zulu food. So that's how sort of the backbone of the menu was formed. Then Gordon went out and learned certain things. He tasted belebele. He tasted all sorts of different things. So he came back and said, okay, so he's going to take care of the main protein and he's going to do this to the fish and he's going to do this to the... And then I sort of created the accompanying dishes.

So I made Uchete, which is Zulu Dom bolo, Dom bolo and Zulu we call whatever you put on top of stew, but Uchete is steamed bread. Of course we made Chaka Laka because I wanted to also bring in, as much as we were talking about KZN and Zulu food, I wanted to also bring in a piece of like South Africa as a whole. And I think Chaka Laka encompasses that. Yeah. Bap, of course, I think you can't cook outside and have a fry without a bit of bap. Yeah. So we made a delicious, I think a delicious, delicious meal. Look, it certainly looks like you guys had a bunch of fun. And as you talked about, about making papna, I suddenly thought, you know what, that is such a, such a, it's not just a South African thing, it's an African thing, but for me, for me, you know, papa and shiba, because I spent a lot of time in the Mpumalanga Lofeld. So we always used to call it shiba, the tomato and onion gravy, that's just, oh man, comfort food of note. Listen, when we come back though, when we come back, you have done a whole bunch of stuff. So I want to talk more about that and your cookbooks. My special guest is Zola Nene, it is What's Involved, we'll be back in just a bit. When we're back, what's involved that is, my guest is Zola Nene.

Now before we had a brief break there, Zola, the one thing that you've mentioned that has struck me is, in terms of food and what is considered African food or South African food, your usage of quite a wide, a wide sort of taste and experience, you mentioned the steamed bread or the, I suppose the literal translation is dumplings, because to me, that's something that I grew up with is stew and dumplings. Yeah, so for us, as you know, in this is Zola Nene, is steamed bread, so it's, you know, you steam it by itself in a pot, but dombolo, like in this cosa or sutu is considered also steamed bread, but for us, dombolo is on top of stew, like you said, like a dumpling on top of stew. Yeah, and it's something that a lot of people use as comfort food in different degrees. So some people have yeast dumplings, some people don't do like, what is it, quick bread dumplings. So some people, you know, sweet dumplings is a thing, yeah, so it is one of those comfort foods that we can all sort of relate to, you know, in all different certain ways. Now, because you're not busy enough, and you weren't busy enough, you decided that you're going to do this whole cookbook thing, so, and you didn't just do one.

And I think that's, I've got to tell you, because I know a little bit about people and writing books and stuff like that. And particularly if you think about cookbooks, it can't be easy. And then you've gone out and done a couple, talk to me about that because you've won awards and all sorts of things. I have and I'm really, I'm really proud of my cookbooks because they are, they feel like a piece to me. And I think of books in general and my cookbooks as like forever projects. So long after I'm gone, there's going to be, you know, some family who's passed my book down and, you know, the recipes in there that I hold dear to my heart become, you know, family traditional recipes for them. So that's such an honor. I think it's such an honor for people when people buy my book and when people have such positive feedback about the book and then just to win awards for something, yeah, that's so close to my heart. So yes, I have two cookbooks. The first one is called Simply Delicious. The second one is called Simply Zola. So you'll notice simply occurs in both the titles because my food philosophy is about simple, not un-intimidating attainable food that everyone can enjoy and, you know, that's really easy to prepare and just delicious.

So that's what, that's the type of food that I share. Yeah, so creating books is a very, very difficult thing, not only to just sort of narrow down the recipes you're going to put in the book because, you know, I'm a chef and I cook every single day. I'm constantly cooking and creating recipes. So to narrow down which ones to include and which ones not is sometimes difficult. But the way that I've gotten around that is to pick recipes that actually have a story behind them. So there's always a reason why that recipe is in the book. And the first book sort of starts with the type of food that I grew up eating. So this type of food that my mom made and my grandmother made and the recipes that they taught me and it sort of progresses through my life. So during the time that I went to England and I was learning different techniques, then into my professional chefing career, where I was, you know, qualifying as a chef and working in five-star restaurants type of thing. Then also travel is a really big influence in my food career. I always, always, always travel first of all to eat. And secondly, I always make sure wherever I go, I link up with a local chef or a local foodie of some sort and I actually learn a skill, like a cooking skill.

So when I went to Beijing, for example, I made sure that I learned how to make noodles from scratch and I learned how to make Chinese dumplings from scratch. And when I was in Thailand, I made sure that I went to a cooking class and learned how to make Thai green curry paste and som tam from scratch so that I could share the skills and the knowledge that I learned and also to upskill myself because I think that constantly learning and evolving is an advantageous thing. So yeah, so my books just chronicle my food journey and I love that my food journey is ever-changing and ever-evolving so that there's always going to be something to share. Yeah, and I'm so proud that my publisher has always never tried to dial down or sensationalize my story. They've always just gone and they're like, okay, well, this is the story you want to tell. Absolutely tell it. And they've never tried to make me alter it or change it in any way just to make it more commercial or whatever the reason would be. So yeah, I'm very, very proud of my books and I'm just proud to have won awards for, like I say, projects that I hold so dear and so close to my heart. Now, there was this little thing in 2019, I believe, a little award you picked up, something about the Best in the World Award.

Yes. So the Gorman World Cookbook Awards are basically like the Oscars of the cookbook world. Yes. I went to China. Which one, China? Oh, I went to, of course, Hong Kong and to, what is the island off of Hong Kong? I forget now. My brain would work. And yeah, they had the award ceremony and my book won world best by a celebrity chef in English. Which is absolutely flipping amazing. So well done and congratulations. You should be spouting that from the top of the highest buildings because a lot of people, and when I told some friends of mine, oh, I'm going to be chatting to Zola, they were like, yeah, we know who Zola Nene is, but you know, her cookbooks are kind of might not be for us, you know, paler complexion people. And I'm like, what? You have no idea. That is absolutely not true, absolutely not true. That's what I love about about your cooking and stuff, though, is that there is this fusion. I can't say this is traditional African food that Zola is putting in a recipe book or this is that. I mean, maybe it's just me and, you know, the fact that I love food so much, but I mean, you've got a recipe, I think it's on your website as well, for Oxtail and in Sam. That to me was always very much like an off we can't stitch, you know, Oxtail and it's now it's crossing boundaries all over the place and it's very, very nice.

It's delicious. Yeah. Please tell your friends that absolutely not. I cook the food that I enjoy and that I eat and I eat a very diverse selection of food of cuisines from all over the world and my books reflect that. So yes, parts of me are very traditional and draw from heritage. But also, you know, I cook Chinese food. I cook French food. I have French, you know, training background in my, you know, my chef background. So it's not, I think that my, what's great about my books, if I may say so myself, is that it is such a mix of tastes and flavors. So yeah, I don't eat just one type of thing all the time. And like you say, there are lots of things that may seem traditional, you know, to, like you say, the same as you say, is traditional to Afrikaans culture. But actually, no, we as Zulu people also love Sam. So maybe my version of Sam might be different to yours, but it'll, it'll, it'll appeal to you in some sort of way because, you know, you also have that connection with it. And yeah, tell them absolutely they must, they must have a look, have a look at the book and at the books and, and yeah, then, then see, then see if, if, if, if it leaves you out in any way. No, I think it's absolutely phenomenal.

When we come back, we're going to wrap up with Zola and find out what her next is. And then Zola, you might want to think about this because I'm going to ask you if there's anything you don't eat. All that, when we come back, it is what's involved. Great to have you along with us. And we're back, wrapping it up with my special guest Zola Nene. So is there something you don't eat? Absolutely. There are lots of things I don't eat, lots and lots of things I don't eat. I'm also human. And I have my own preferences. I do not eat bananas. I do not like the taste, the texture, the smell. I also don't, I don't, I don't eat chicken feet because my dad never ate them. So it wasn't something that, you know, we had at home. And also I'm very afraid of toenails. So that kind of freaks me out a little bit. You see, this is one of the things that concerns me as well, I guess, that you eat something and then you can pick your teeth with the something you've just eaten. Just walkie talkies just don't make too much sense to me. And yes, I have tried it. And I'm in the same boat as you here. The other thing I don't eat is tongue because I refuse to eat something that can taste me. I mean, that's a great theory.

That's a great theory. Don't eat things that can taste you back. Tongue, I don't mind so much for me, it's just the peeling, the preparation of the tongue. I'd like to delegate that job. That job can go to someone. Favourite thing, favourite thing to prepare, Salah? What is your favourite? If you were to make anything that you possibly, that your heart could desire, what is your favourite? Oh, it's so hard to pick a favourite because I'm just inherently greedy. But if I had to, you know, eat the same thing forever more, it would definitely be my mom's lamb curry and coleslaw. I love, love, love coleslaw. I know it's very obscure and strange, but I do. I just, I love it. The texture, the creaminess, the tanginess, I love it. I love it. I've had, it's one of my favourites and I've had so many varieties of coleslaw, which is absolutely amazing. Salah, we've run out of time. What is next for Zola Nene? What's next for me? I've just launched my YouTube channel, so that's very exciting. People have been asking me for many, many years to finally get on YouTube and I've finally done it. So that's really exciting. My new website, which is more functional and people can find my recipes really easily.

That is really great. And what's next? You know what? I'm never going to stop sharing my food, my recipes, cooking tips, and just, you are sharing my food knowledge with anyone who listens. So lots more recipes and delicious things to come for me. I've got to tell you that website is quite spectacular. I didn't realise that it was a redone one. So nicely done. So nicely done. Is that the best place, if somebody wants to get hold of you, is that the best place to go? Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. So all my contact details are on my website as well as my management team and they'll probably respond much faster than I will to email. So yeah, that's the best way to get hold of me. Wonderful stuff. www.Zola.com You've got a store in there as well. You've got recipes. It's fantastic. Great website. And yes, Charlotte, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for taking the time out and having attacked us. We do wish you all the best and stay in touch. I'd love to find out what else you get up to. Thank you so much. Thank you for the time and thank you for the platform. You're amazing. Jan, thank you for just encouraging me to keep going because people like you who pay us compliments is why we do this thing.

So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, you've certainly had an impact and Chaka Laka has become part of our household now. So once again, thank you for that.